I disagree.
Not true. The Magistrate can order it so.
Depends on which happens last. Whatever happens last takes precedence.
VIC What to Do with Interim Intervention Order?
- Thread starter GlassHalfFull
- Start date
I disagree.
Not true. The Magistrate can order it so.
Depends on which happens last. Whatever happens last takes precedence.
Carl - All good points and I'm willing to concede no absolute rights or wrongs... But let's play. No it isn't true that the only way kids get taken of is if she agrees. She could be persuaded, there is some pressure, like the magistrate questioning the thing, so her accepting a compromise isn't impossible. But a magistrate could simply make the call if you ask nicely.
More importantly, let's assume the avo gets dropt. She still has the kids. He would be dumb to pick them up from school or what ever when we look big picture. Court down the road. etc. He can't see the kids because of the avo, he cant see them because she isn't gonna let him. Family court can fix that.
Mate if the avo goes through just stay clean. She will need hard evidence of a breach. So a much greater burden of proof on her. Ask the magistrate for the kids to be taken off the order at the same time as you accept without admission. The guy with the funny wig will make the call. Don't get too caught up in the details and save your $$$ for family court.
More importantly, let's assume the avo gets dropt. She still has the kids. He would be dumb to pick them up from school or what ever when we look big picture. Court down the road. etc. He can't see the kids because of the avo, he cant see them because she isn't gonna let him. Family court can fix that.
Mate if the avo goes through just stay clean. She will need hard evidence of a breach. So a much greater burden of proof on her. Ask the magistrate for the kids to be taken off the order at the same time as you accept without admission. The guy with the funny wig will make the call. Don't get too caught up in the details and save your $$$ for family court.
Yeah, that's the thing. I got the first IVO hearing in a little over a week and then the first family court hearing in a little over 2 weeks. Very likely I won't get much of an outcome in the first IVO hearing other than maybe getting the kids off the IVO. Whereas I'm likely to get some favourable interim orders from the family court just a week later (I hope).
Thing is, it was the police that took the IVO out on me in the first place, on her request. So they are prosecuting the IVO, not her. I don't even know if she has to be there for it, or whether they just represent her interests which she advises beforehand. Either way, my understanding is that police are very unwilling to negotiate much because they don't want to agree to something without their 'client' agreeing to it, just in case it comes back to bite them if there is further violence. Since they represent her interests, I guess they won't concede much unless she gives the ok. Which I am pretty sure she won't.
Thing is, it was the police that took the IVO out on me in the first place, on her request. So they are prosecuting the IVO, not her. I don't even know if she has to be there for it, or whether they just represent her interests which she advises beforehand. Either way, my understanding is that police are very unwilling to negotiate much because they don't want to agree to something without their 'client' agreeing to it, just in case it comes back to bite them if there is further violence. Since they represent her interests, I guess they won't concede much unless she gives the ok. Which I am pretty sure she won't.
Which courthouse is the IVO?
Remember you can see the duty lawyer or CLC lawyer on the day. Advantage they have is they deal with the police prosecutors day-in day-out and know what is achievable for your circumstances.
Remember you can see the duty lawyer or CLC lawyer on the day. Advantage they have is they deal with the police prosecutors day-in day-out and know what is achievable for your circumstances.
Heidelberg. That's what I'm thinking. My lawyer booked a barrister for the hearing 'just in case' and said I can cancel it if I decide not to use him. He's $1500 and I'm leaning towards him not being worth that kind of money, given it's only an initial hearing anyway, and given it's unlikely to be dismissed at the first hearing.
The question is, how much time will I have to speak to a duty lawyer beforehand, and how much attention will I get from them? That's the big unknown.
Obviously my own private barrister will give me all the time and attention I need, but if there's limited benefits on the first hearing, I'm not sure it's going to be worth it. Obviously if I did take it to a contested hearing, I'd need a barrister, but for a 5 minute hearing where the magistrate only wants to know if I'm going to contest it or not, and with the mere possibility of having some conditions removed? I can't see it being money well spent. Your thoughts?
Also, do you know if you can only get conditions removed if you agree to it with or without admissions? Or can you get conditions removed and still contest it at a full hearing? I wasn't sure if it was an either-or.
Heidelberg court is serviced by West Heidelberg Community Legal Service. I've had no dealings with them. Probably pay to talk with them before the day. They may not take your case if you are already seeing a lawyer in a Family matter - but worth a try.
The same may apply to legal aid.
If you can see the CLC or legal aid lawyer, expect 10-30 mins, depends on how busy they are on the day. After reading the IVO and asking a few questions they know what you should do after about 10-15 mins.
You are right in that a directions hearing is not going to determine the matter if you are contesting the order. This does however give you a good chance to 'suss' out the police prosecutors on the day.
Having your Family Law matter heard after the directions hearing means consent without admissions is useful, especially if you get the kids taken off, as there is no finding of fact against you.
If your lawyer doesn't do IVOs, and the CLC/legal aid won't help, post back here again next week and I'll see if there's another option for you.
The same may apply to legal aid.
If you can see the CLC or legal aid lawyer, expect 10-30 mins, depends on how busy they are on the day. After reading the IVO and asking a few questions they know what you should do after about 10-15 mins.
You are right in that a directions hearing is not going to determine the matter if you are contesting the order. This does however give you a good chance to 'suss' out the police prosecutors on the day.
Having your Family Law matter heard after the directions hearing means consent without admissions is useful, especially if you get the kids taken off, as there is no finding of fact against you.
If your lawyer doesn't do IVOs, and the CLC/legal aid won't help, post back here again next week and I'll see if there's another option for you.
I posted on this forum in July regularly then went to court in July self representing and got final orders - more than what I wanted. Honestly I was traumatised by the ex maliciously denying access to our children. I think many posters on this forum are. All the lies and malicious actions by the ex came back to bite her. They gave considerable leverage when deliberating with her barrister. She wimped out on being put on the stand and we ended up settling by consent.
I had a similar scenario to the OP.
Ask the police or failing that the magistrate for the IVO hearing to be adjourned until after your FCC date. I agree with the advice of those already posted, don't spend money on the IVO but you must not breach the orders. It's really easy to breach the orders, she may seem friendly one day and with access to the kids on offer you get sucked in. Bingo breach. Take someone with you to change overs. Maybe stay in the car whilst your friend gets the kids. Breaching the order will negate any advantage you have. Repeat, do not breach the orders under any circumstances.
The IVO wasn't put before the FCC judge. The content was just fodder to attack her integrity.
The afternoon after the FCC hearing I had my kids for a week. I seem them every week now and then for every fortnight from Fri - Sun and half of all school holidays + the other regulars. I could have gone for more but that would have upset the employment situation. It works for me.
But in my situation the IVO still goes on! Despite settling by consent the ex wants 'full orders including the kids for 2 years'. She tried luring me into breaching the interim orders which I used to get an IVO against her! The process for getting an IVO in confetti land is abysmal. It's a f***ing joke that that's all it takes to deny access to the kids.
I had a similar scenario to the OP.
Ask the police or failing that the magistrate for the IVO hearing to be adjourned until after your FCC date. I agree with the advice of those already posted, don't spend money on the IVO but you must not breach the orders. It's really easy to breach the orders, she may seem friendly one day and with access to the kids on offer you get sucked in. Bingo breach. Take someone with you to change overs. Maybe stay in the car whilst your friend gets the kids. Breaching the order will negate any advantage you have. Repeat, do not breach the orders under any circumstances.
The IVO wasn't put before the FCC judge. The content was just fodder to attack her integrity.
The afternoon after the FCC hearing I had my kids for a week. I seem them every week now and then for every fortnight from Fri - Sun and half of all school holidays + the other regulars. I could have gone for more but that would have upset the employment situation. It works for me.
But in my situation the IVO still goes on! Despite settling by consent the ex wants 'full orders including the kids for 2 years'. She tried luring me into breaching the interim orders which I used to get an IVO against her! The process for getting an IVO in confetti land is abysmal. It's a f***ing joke that that's all it takes to deny access to the kids.
Well done Miguel.
Yup ivo/avo are common territory. But in family law they are a small obstacle. Those magistrates are pretty smart... If they get a wiff that an avo / ivo is being used for advantage in family law they will not be happy. Strangely enough my year with the avo was not all that bad. A whole year of not talking to the ex except for at change overs...The ex called my phone and if I answered when it was a private number, I'd just hang up and never answer her mobile...
Avo/ivo are easy enough to get... But proving a breech and getting a conviction is not so easy. If you keep your nose clean, don't go driving past her house etc. The avo can kinda be a good thing. Like I said, a whole year of virtually no communication with the ex...Awesome. Just remember...
Play by the rules. Don't engage in arguments when dropping off kids and don't do drive pasts her house or any other crazy stuff... mate I live in a small town. One shopping complex. I was called to the cop shop after bumping into the ex at the shops.
A vindictive ex set to use the family law system to deprive kids right to the the other parent is an expensive and unsuccessful way of running a family law case
Yup ivo/avo are common territory. But in family law they are a small obstacle. Those magistrates are pretty smart... If they get a wiff that an avo / ivo is being used for advantage in family law they will not be happy. Strangely enough my year with the avo was not all that bad. A whole year of not talking to the ex except for at change overs...The ex called my phone and if I answered when it was a private number, I'd just hang up and never answer her mobile...
Avo/ivo are easy enough to get... But proving a breech and getting a conviction is not so easy. If you keep your nose clean, don't go driving past her house etc. The avo can kinda be a good thing. Like I said, a whole year of virtually no communication with the ex...Awesome. Just remember...
Play by the rules. Don't engage in arguments when dropping off kids and don't do drive pasts her house or any other crazy stuff... mate I live in a small town. One shopping complex. I was called to the cop shop after bumping into the ex at the shops.
A vindictive ex set to use the family law system to deprive kids right to the the other parent is an expensive and unsuccessful way of running a family law case
Thanks Sammy, you gave good opinions for me, particularly the one that being adversarial would mean the court would have to make a tough decision and given they had already settled with mum that may have seen me outed. My affidavit and strategy was based me presenting as flexible and reasonable. That's why it is so important that IVO's are not breached as it's hard to argue flexibility and reasonableness in the face of a breach.
I had some luck too, a magistrate known to despise frivolous IVO's. I sniffed early on the ex's barrister didn't want a contest and just went for it. And won. But I cannot believe females can wield access to the kids around as a weapon to manipulate. It is the ultimate act of violence.
And in the end she spent 10k on a barrister who ended up writing up the orders for us. I think he despised the ex as he didn't even look at her when he said 'you can leave now out that door'.
Thanks.
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