WA Family Violence Restraining Order

[sammy01]

Your avo paperwork should explain who the applicant is. Police on behalf of XXX OR something else?\
You have your head screwed on the right way. It isn't the system at fault here. It is nasty vindictive people.

Mate back in the day, as I was driving to drop off the kids, I used to ask my kids what was the best thing about the weekend with dad and what do they think would be fun for next time.

I would tell them to be good for their mum. And I would say that infront of her....
And there was always a little treat in the car, or an iceblock on the way home when I picked them up...

My ex was trying to manipulate the kids against me. Some of the things she told the kids was shameful. I was trying to manipulate them too. Hence the stuff I mentioned above. I did it in a more subtle, positive and productive way. I never said a bad word about here and I do think the kids worked it out for themselves.

 

[LovingDad1973]

Your avo paperwork should explain who the applicant is. Police on behalf of XXX OR something else?\
You have your head screwed on the right way. It isn't the system at fault here. It is nasty vindictive people.

Mate back in the day, as I was driving to drop off the kids, I used to ask my kids what was the best thing about the weekend with dad and what do they think would be fun for next time.

I would tell them to be good for their mum. And I would say that infront of her....
And there was always a little treat in the car, or an iceblock on the way home when I picked them up...

My ex was trying to manipulate the kids against me. Some of the things she told the kids was shameful. I was trying to manipulate them too. Hence the stuff I mentioned above. I did it in a more subtle, positive and productive way. I never said a bad word about here and I do think the kids worked it out for themselves.

Thanks mate. It took me a fair while to not get overly emotional about what was being done to me. This was especially difficult because the malicious lies went to the heart of what I care about most - the parenting of my children. But the Court, Police, etc only deal with facts and any emotional outburst (no matter how understandable) isnt viewed well.

I also do like you did, I have a long term plan for how I will parent and I have no doubt my children will grow to appreciate my approach over the vindictive one of my ex-wife

 

[LovingDad1973]

Does anyone know if audio recordings are allowed in the Magistrates Court when objecting to the granting of an FVRO?

I went back to an old phone and found some voicemails from my ex-girlfriend that I had recordings of. In a few of them she warns me to "to not be in my home with my daughters for a weekend because a male friend of hers was coming around with his cousins (who had been in jail for murdering bikies) to sort me out"

Nothing like the magistrate being able to hear the threat of violence in the voice of the applicant, who isn't from Australia and has quite a distinctive accent

As it was a voicemail I think I am entitled to have a recording of it unlike say recording a private conversation, which I believe is illegal.

 

[Atticus]

Does anyone know if audio recordings are allowed in the Magistrates Court when objecting to the granting of an FVRO?

I assume you mean the trial, not the first mention....would depend on the weight of any objection but ultimately up to the magistrate of the day...

Keep in mind the incredibly low bar that exists for a magistrate to conclude there is a need for these things... The applicant needs only to convince the mag that they are in fear of you in some way... It's not a trial about her character or even yours for that matter... Establishing she is willing to have you 'done over' may not be much of an advantage to you anyway.

 

[LovingDad1973]

I assume you mean the trial, not the first mention....would depend on the weight of any objection but ultimately up to the magistrate of the day...

Keep in mind the incredibly low bar that exists for a magistrate to conclude there is a need for these things... The applicant needs only to convince the mag that they are in fear of you in some way... It's not a trial about her character or even yours for that matter... Establishing she is willing to have you 'done over' may not be much of an advantage to you anyway.

Fair enough. But the audio recording is backed up with a text message confirming her threat.

Plus numerous text messages demanding money from me or she was going to call the police.

Plus the police investigated and didn't press charges or even get an FVRO

I don't even know this woman's address as she changed where she lived.

I believe I can clearly show that it was her harrassing me and I can't see what evidence she can have to support her application other than her word.

I hear you that the bar is low but surely there has to be some evidence supporting her claim of being afraid of me?

 

[sammy01]

So the text messages prove she threatened you. They don't dis-prove her allegations against you... So if you had evidence that you were somewhere else when the alleged events happened that would be 'proof'. But even then, not beyond reasonable doubt. From memory the law in NSW is 'the grounds of probability". Kinda like the chances of a coin landing heads. Insanity...

 

[Atticus]

Certainly the text messages threatening to report you unless paid money is relevant & could be used to argue that the application was at least in part her just following though with her threat, not based on any fear... End of the day, being a private application, you have to convince the mag not that she is of bad character, but that the FVRO is not required, or is demonstrably baseless (as in her supporting affidavits can be pulled apart)

 

[LovingDad1973]

So the text messages prove she threatened you. They don't dis-prove her allegations against you... So if you had evidence that you were somewhere else when the alleged events happened that would be 'proof'. But even then, not beyond reasonable doubt. From memory the law in NSW is 'the grounds of probability". Kinda like the chances of a coin landing heads. Insanity...

As I say I am out of the country so still haven't seen the actual affidavit. However I have been able to glean bits from what my ex-wife used in Family Court against me.

One of the claims I believe is that I "held my ex-girlfriend against her will" at my house on a certain date. However, I have uber receipts and shopping receipts for that time showing that I was out and about during that time. Now either I kidnapped her and took her shopping with me or I left her at my home while I went out and about, which is what happened.

 

[LovingDad1973]

Certainly the text messages threatening to report you unless paid money is relevant & could be used to argue that the application was at least in part her just following though with her threat, not based on any fear... End of the day, being a private application, you have to convince the mag not that she is of bad character, but that the FVRO is not required, or is demonstrably baseless (as in her supporting affidavits can be pulled apart)

Spot on - pulling her affidavit apart is what I will need to do. Cheers

 

[LovingDad1973]

Update on this matter for those interested, partially contained in a reply to another thread of mine:

I applied to the Magistrates Court and was awarded an INTERIM FVRO against my ex-partner. I went there all prepared with my evidence but the magistrate isn't interested in the evidence at the Interim FVRO hearing stage, your word is accepted. He just asked me a few questions and I asked him a few questions also. The magistrate was actually a decent bloke and explained his decision making very well.

For me getting the Interim FVRO against my ex-partner had the following benefits:

1. it showed me the process my ex-partner went to get her FVRO and why one was awarded to her without any justification - basically she was free to claim anything she wanted without having to substantiate with evidence

2. made me determined to fight her Interim FVRO as I have a weight of evidence contradicting her claims. In this regard, I have requested a transcript of what was said at the hearing where she was given an FVRO. I also got a copy of the form she used to apply for the Interim FVRO. In WA affidavits arent used in the application of FVROs

3. I can use this in the Family Court proceedings that my ex-wife has started on the basis of the false claims of my ex-partner

My Family Court proceedings are going as well as I could have hoped for:

Myself and my ex-wife had a Family Conference / Mediation session last week. I brought along my file of evidence that showed my ex-partner was lying with her claims of being assaulted. I clearly and calmly explained to the mediator that it was all bulls**t and that the children were in no danger by being in my care. I got a letter yesterday basically agreeing that the mediator could find no evidence to suggest the children were in any danger by being in my care. He also stated that it looked very much like my ex-partner had tried to extort money from me.

So I go back to Family Court in September where I feel confident the current court orders will again be reinstated.

On a side note, I self-represented whilst my ex-wife got a lawyer so I think she has felt the impact of the cost of bringing this frivolous case to court. Serves her right - I offered to explain all of this to her and show her proof that what I was saying was true. She ignored me, prevented me from seeing my children and went straight to litigation. Maybe, just maybe, she might learn from this that our children are better with both parents in their lives than only one, the mother. Probably not but here's hoping.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me out with their replies to my threads on here. Its been a learning experience but one thats made me stronger and more confident in the approaches I have been taking.