QLD How to Stop Neighbour's Harassment?

[jennifer johnson]

Yeah, I reckon. Police are definitely not interested. They want a corpse - or as you said, a victim who's snapped who will be arrested immediately.

Go figure!

Well good luck to debra whatever she decides!

 

[Gorodetsky]

Hi Debra,

Yeah, my experience with the QPS was very similar to Jennifer's.

They did pretty much ignore property damage, assault, obscene behaviour etc, etc, because they decided it was a neighbour dispute. Failed to uphold the law.

They recommended mediation. Despite my problem neighbour clearly being beyond reasoning with. There is no point in sitting down and negotiating when in a stalking situation, I'd suggest it's counter productive. The documents we read when we were considering mediation suggested most mediations take 10 hrs. We didn't bother.

The QPS suggested we try to get a PAGBO. We read about it, do you know what happens when a PAGBO is breached? The cops are meant to arrest the offender for breaching it. The same cops that won't act on property damage and assault...yeah sure they will. So we didn't bother with that either.

The QPS asked us to document it and collect video. We did. Gave it to them. They said write a statement, put all the details down. We did. It wasn't a small document. They said, nothing here we can act on.

I started complaining to the CCC. Failure to investigate, failure to act. They didn't like that, they made my only point of contact the officer in charge of the station, and he was never available. I'd phone up to say, neighbour trespassed into my property I've got video, and they'd say sorry you have to talk to officer in charge, but he's not here, bye. So I documented their service and responses and complained again to the CCC. I mean they told me blatant lies, so I started recording them. My wife and I were having daily run ins with the total nutjob next door and they wanted to play silly games.

Well, after several complaints about their inaction, probably 6months of run around, something happened and the neighbour did not come near us.

I suspect the workload from the complaints became more than actually doing their job and they decided to stop my neighbour from harassing us.

So my opinion is, if the police are not upholding the law, complain.

Good luck

Regards

 

[Peter Andrews]

Hi.

These posts are remarkably accurate to the realities of neighbour bullying/ abuse (not neighbour disputes) situations I've witnessed. The exception here to my experiences is Gorodetsky's, which would require immense patience and persistence (which can only be commended).

As mentioned previously (for the sake of naming all options) there is civil action that can be taken via the private and public nuisance laws. Information about these can be found in this very helpful handbook:

Public and Private Nuisance

Again, these are mainly about "dispute issues" e.g. noise, dust, obstruction of water supply, rights of way (as opposed to bullying issues such as: throwing rocks, destruction of property etc.). There is a section in there about trespassing also.

 

[Gorodetsky]

Hi,

Just for the thread, I mean the original poster might have solved their problem (I hope), but for others arriving here searching for a solution to their own problem...

I think that mediation can often solve neighbour friction...When both parties are reasonable people.

I think litigation for nuisance is great for people who have lots of money to spend, and where the problem is less than criminal.

But when the problem is criminal acts, I really don't think mediation or nuisance litigation is the best way to tackle it. The police prefer to brush off crimes like these...But we have the laws and the police have an obligation to uphold them.

If the harrasment is at a criminal level, the detours the police recommend (mediation, peace and good behaviour order, private litigation) are what's going to take you lots of time, and probly cost a fair bit....And probly yield weak results... That's where complaints about police inaction and escalating your problem is actually the shorter path.

I hope this helps

Regards

 

[Genna]

Civil action is only available via a peace & good behaviour order and again one has to have physical proof of the behaviours you are complaining about before you apply for a P&GB O. It costs about $86 which may be beyond the impoverished although legal aid can help in such circumstances. But when the system says; 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt' what they really mean is proof beyond all doubt!

The onus is on you to prove you did not provoke the behaviours; that you tried all legal and reasonable methods to deal with such behaviours; and so on ad nauseum. Yhe legal and law enforcement system is geared to seeing bullying in the neighbourhood as simply 'neighbourhood disputes'. Even if you initiate and P&GB O and get a hearing, the first thing the magistrate will ask is 'have you tried mediation'.

Mediation is the absolute and unavoidable first step.

If you're initiating a p&gb o via private solicitors you will waste a lot of money just for the magistrate to refer it to mediation. In fact, you will pay for the legal advisors to tell you the same thing in the first instance: seek mediation. And they will charge you to initiate it on your behalf although the service itself is free.

Even if you have irrefutable proof of neighbours bullying you, the police will not act unless there is what they see as criminal behaviour...so even one's proof of the bully's criminal behaviour - e.g. tailgating - will not incite them to act against the bullying. They may give the offender a warning but are unlikely to issue a traffic notice unless you can prove longevity of such tailgating behaviours.

You also have to have proof that you have exhausted all other legal and reasonable methods of dealing with the bullying before bringing it to court - otherwise, you can be charged with wasting the court's time and have to pay all court costs and be counter-sued by the offender for making 'vexatious claims'...

All of which is a huge amount of money.

Bullying is not illegal in qld. Police will first refer you to mediation. If you continue to approach them they will refer you to the P&GB O.

Officers will also ask: why don't you just wear ear plugs so you can't hear the alleged abuses: or why don't you move: or why don't you just go out the front way: and other such insulting questions. And the offender is not obliged to answer any questions from the police; nor are they obliged to attend mediation.

It is an endless circle of further victimisation of the victim...

The only other alternative is the 'name and shame' route by contacting current affairs programs...but even then, you have to offer them proof of your allegations.

Sorry to revive an old thread, this is so true, Bullying is not illegal in QLD! I believe this problem is endemic & QLD Law archaic, a lot more jacked in NSW I heard. Mine has been ongoing 5 yrs, pretty vicious, defamation, harassment, stalking, damage of property, vandalism, amplified noise, etc etc. Like the OP, the culprits are Tenants. The Rental Agent ignores my ceaseless complaints, refers me to the Police. The Police advised me to get a PGBO, which I did, countless postponements that took months. The Magistrate declared their vandalism as "inappropriate behaviour", that they "pose no future threat" because they had already been fined in Criminal Court!! Unbelievable but true! Don't waste your time or money on a PGBO, appears it has a socialism bias. You have to be half dead to get a PGBO, don't confuse it's name "Peace and Good Behaviour Order" with reality, it does NOT address harassment, discrimination, defamation, abuse! I wrote to the RTA, REIQ, useless as you are not considered part of the Rental Agreement, even if Tenants breach it the Rental Agent is under NO OBLIGATION to enforce "appropriate behaviour". There is that term again. I wrote to Fair Trading, who referred me to the RTA, LOL & the RTA referred me to Fair Trading. Loopy! Your only hope is Human Rights & Psychological Personal Injury. Anyone else in same position, welcome to message me, I'm going through the process now.

 

[Dabz]

Sorry to revive an old thread, this is so true, Bullying is not illegal in QLD! I believe this problem is endemic & QLD Law archaic, a lot more jacked in NSW I heard. Mine has been ongoing 5 yrs, pretty vicious, defamation, harassment, stalking, damage of property, vandalism, amplified noise, etc etc. Like the OP, the culprits are Tenants. The Rental Agent ignores my ceaseless complaints, refers me to the Police. The Police advised me to get a PGBO, which I did, countless postponements that took months. The Magistrate declared their vandalism as "inappropriate behaviour", that they "pose no future threat" because they had already been fined in Criminal Court!! Unbelievable but true! Don't waste your time or money on a PGBO, appears it has a socialism bias. You have to be half dead to get a PGBO, don't confuse it's name "Peace and Good Behaviour Order" with reality, it does NOT address harassment, discrimination, defamation, abuse! I wrote to the RTA, REIQ, useless as you are not considered part of the Rental Agreement, even if Tenants breach it the Rental Agent is under NO OBLIGATION to enforce "appropriate behaviour". There is that term again. I wrote to Fair Trading, who referred me to the RTA, LOL & the RTA referred me to Fair Trading. Loopy! Your only hope is Human Rights & Psychological Personal Injury. Anyone else in same position, welcome to message me, I'm going through the process now.

Hi Genna ,

I would like to know how you going with your case ? I have convinced the police to take our statements and I have about 6 other Neigbours filing statements for the yers of abuse that all of us have faced . However, what I have read here I am now very very concerned that this will end up like any other complaints. We have a young family and we r traumatised and psychological impacted .

 

[Peter Andrews]

Hi Genna ,

I would like to know how you going with your case ? I have convinced the police to take our statements and I have about 6 other Neigbours filing statements for the yers of abuse that all of us have faced . However, what I have read here I am now very very concerned that this will end up like any other complaints. We have a young family and we r traumatised and psychological impacted .

Hi Genna,

There are many factors that will make police respond well (or not), stay cautiously hopeful for now. This forum will naturally fill up with people with negative experiences (though they are common).

Police responses can be very random (very good, very bad, everything in-between, generally underwhelming)
You need to start with with the understanding that every station is in a different location, with different funding and different crime rates/ severity. There are also individuals in the police force who care and those that just shouldn't be there at all. Police tend to do the minimum to keep things calm IN THE MOMENT. This often results in people feeling like they got an underwhelming response.

Number of complainants
Number of people coming forward is huge. A group of witnesses is far more convincing/ powerful than 1 person.

The level of evidence
A mobile phone is by far the greatest weapon for collecting audio/video evidence. CCTV cameras are increasingly cheaper and accessible now. You can not film at times when/ where people would reasonably expect privacy.

The length of time the behavior/ abuse has been going on (ultimately a random outcome)
This goes against you, as much as it works for you - ultimately it's random! Some police will take the length of time as an indicator that the issues won't go away without intervention. Others will peg you as a trouble maker and persistent complainer (the boy who cried wolf). I've seen it go both ways many, many times.

The severity of the behavior/ abuses
90% of people I speak to fail to grasp that people being nasty about a civil dispute = NOT a crime. It's not a crime to be 'nasty'. It's not a crime to swear (unless specifically directed at a person/ particularly a family member) or be rude. It's (generally) not a crime to speak your opinion about people, which people typically (and misguidedly) refer to as defamation (very unlikely to amount to any kind case... and again, that is not pursued in a criminal way by police... I believe it is also civil). A crime is something that is stated as such in the criminal code or other such act. DO NOT assume that everything you experience constitutes a crime. Many people here have stated that bullying is not a crime in QLD - this certainly holds true for many behaviours, though some do reach criminal levels. Though minor crimes can be felt very deeply over time, police rarely feel it is worth pursuing (see point above - police responses are random).

The degree to which you are willing to file formal complaints with the QLD Police and continue to escalate the complaint if the outcome does not meet reasonable expectations
Gorodetsky (who has commented earlier) seems well informed and knowledgeable. Believe him. Police complaints work - not every time, for everyone on every issue. But it's not uncommon for them to work. The random part, is that some people may need to complain an onerous amount, others not much at all (see random police responses). Understand that police reports are like everything else in life. DO NOT EXPECT the police to send you updates or follow-up with you. The onus is VERY MUCH ON YOU, even after you file a report/ complaint about non-action on your report. In life, you have to manage your issues (and usually other people), this is no different.

Two caveats: I know I've put a lot of expectation on victims here. I apologise for this, as it obviously is not really 'fair'. Unfortunately however, it really is the truth about how these matters work though, despite not being fair. I've also painted the Police a little grim here. In their (slight) defense they have to deal with their restraints too. This might include, having to take your complaint knowing full well there is not sufficient law to prosecute or deal with the perpetrator. Prioritizing the tasks that come to them that day, which might include far more serious matters. It's not just a policing problem, it is also a law (and potentially a resourcing) problem.

 

[Genna]

Hi Genna ,

I would like to know how you going with your case ? I have convinced the police to take our statements and I have about 6 other Neigbours filing statements for the yers of abuse that all of us have faced . However, what I have read here I am now very very concerned that this will end up like any other complaints. We have a young family and we r traumatised and psychological impacted .

Are the neighbours harassing you welfare recipients? Mine are, regular Police services, as stated on their website, do not cater for ongoing harassment, that's why Police advises to apply for a Peace Good Behaviour Order PGBO. I thought it would be easy to get, specially after they burgled my house, threw burning objects in my yard, spy on me in my house openly letting me know they are spying into my house. We erected a 2m covered privacy screen to stop this, now they stand elevated. The Magistrate declared "no future threat" as the burglar had already been fined in Criminal court for wilful damage. The Magistrate told me to "buy curtains" to stop spying, lol, I can't buy curtains to sit outside on my deck behind a privacy screen. She told me to "move on", well how does she propose I do that living with convicted criminals next door, no curtain can resolve that! Her verdict sent a message of empowerment to the culprits, they have stepped up stalking harassment behaviour big time! Keep that in mind when you apply for a PGBO, if you lose your persecutors will be empowered! Is that the role of a representative of the Law, to encourage significant harassment?

my progress, i cant claim personal injury compensation against welfare recipients! My last hope now is Human Rights QHRC, their review of cases is delayed by CVD, bear in mind you have to prove disability while claiming your human rights to peace & safety are being violated. my disability being anxiety, aggravated by fear of neighbours causing mental anguish. I will update once my case comes under review. welcome to message to keep contact as i don't want to fill the forum with negative observations.

 

[Genna]

Hi Genna,

There are many factors that will make police respond well (or not), stay cautiously hopeful for now. This forum will naturally fill up with people with negative experiences (though they are common).

Police responses can be very random (very good, very bad, everything in-between, generally underwhelming)
You need to start with with the understanding that every station is in a different location, with different funding and different crime rates/ severity. There are also individuals in the police force who care and those that just shouldn't be there at all. Police tend to do the minimum to keep things calm IN THE MOMENT. This often results in people feeling like they got an underwhelming response.

Number of complainants
Number of people coming forward is huge. A group of witnesses is far more convincing/ powerful than 1 person.

The level of evidence
A mobile phone is by far the greatest weapon for collecting audio/video evidence. CCTV cameras are increasingly cheaper and accessible now. You can not film at times when/ where people would reasonably expect privacy.

The length of time the behavior/ abuse has been going on (ultimately a random outcome)
This goes against you, as much as it works for you - ultimately it's random! Some police will take the length of time as an indicator that the issues won't go away without intervention. Others will peg you as a trouble maker and persistent complainer (the boy who cried wolf). I've seen it go both ways many, many times.

The severity of the behavior/ abuses
90% of people I speak to fail to grasp that people being nasty about a civil dispute = NOT a crime. It's not a crime to be 'nasty'. It's not a crime to swear (unless specifically directed at a person/ particularly a family member) or be rude. It's (generally) not a crime to speak your opinion about people, which people typically (and misguidedly) refer to as defamation (very unlikely to amount to any kind case... and again, that is not pursued in a criminal way by police... I believe it is also civil). A crime is something that is stated as such in the criminal code or other such act. DO NOT assume that everything you experience constitutes a crime. Many people here have stated that bullying is not a crime in QLD - this certainly holds true for many behaviours, though some do reach criminal levels. Though minor crimes can be felt very deeply over time, police rarely feel it is worth pursuing (see point above - police responses are random).

The degree to which you are willing to file formal complaints with the QLD Police and continue to escalate the complaint if the outcome does not meet reasonable expectations
Gorodetsky (who has commented earlier) seems well informed and knowledgeable. Believe him. Police complaints work - not every time, for everyone on every issue. But it's not uncommon for them to work. The random part, is that some people may need to complain an onerous amount, others not much at all (see random police responses). Understand that police reports are like everything else in life. DO NOT EXPECT the police to send you updates or follow-up with you. The onus is VERY MUCH ON YOU, even after you file a report/ complaint about non-action on your report. In life, you have to manage your issues (and usually other people), this is no different.

Two caveats: I know I've put a lot of expectation on victims here. I apologise for this, as it obviously is not really 'fair'. Unfortunately however, it really is the truth about how these matters work though, despite not being fair. I've also painted the Police a little grim here. In their (slight) defense they have to deal with their restraints too. This might include, having to take your complaint knowing full well there is not sufficient law to prosecute or deal with the perpetrator. Prioritizing the tasks that come to them that day, which might include far more serious matters. It's not just a policing problem, it is also a law (and potentially a resourcing) problem.

noted, yep. sorry i can't be more enthusiastic. in my case the Magistrate refused to review my mobile phone evidence of harassment & stalking, she concluded "no future threat" after burglary, since burglar has already been fined in criminal court.

 

[Peter Andrews]

Are the neighbours harassing you welfare recipients? Mine are, regular Police services, as stated on their website, do not cater for ongoing harassment, that's why Police advises to apply for a Peace Good Behaviour Order PGBO. I thought it would be easy to get, specially after they burgled my house, threw burning objects in my yard, spy on me in my house openly letting me know they are spying into my house. We erected a 2m covered privacy screen to stop this, now they stand elevated. The Magistrate declared "no future threat" as the burglar had already been fined in Criminal court for wilful damage. The Magistrate told me to "buy curtains" to stop spying, lol, I can't buy curtains to sit outside on my deck behind a privacy screen. She told me to "move on", well how does she propose I do that living with convicted criminals next door, no curtain can resolve that! Her verdict sent a message of empowerment to the culprits, they have stepped up stalking harassment behaviour big time! Keep that in mind when you apply for a PGBO, if you lose your persecutors will be empowered! Is that the role of a representative of the Law, to encourage significant harassment?

my progress, i cant claim personal injury compensation against welfare recipients! My last hope now is Human Rights QHRC, their review of cases is delayed by CVD, bear in mind you have to prove disability while claiming your human rights to peace & safety are being violated. my disability being anxiety, aggravated by fear of neighbours causing mental anguish. I will update once my case comes under review. welcome to message to keep contact as i don't want to fill the forum with negative observations.

Hi Genna,

Thanks so much for sharing - it sounds abhorrent. The results of the case would be super interesting! Whether the QHRC could be useful in any way, would be great info!

I'm sure you're in a better place to tell us all, however I'll put this here for others following along too. The QHRC is relatively new and is made up of the 'old anti-discrimination body' as well as a new area that can handle human rights complaints according to the (very) recent human rights act put in place.

Human Rights Complaints:
In terms of human rights, you can only complain about the actions of the Public Entities (i.e. the government). A human rights complaint must also relate to one of the listed human rights in the QLD act. This probably excludes the actions of the neighbours (/sigh). However it does include the action/non-action of the Police. Court decisions can not be considered under a human rights complaint unless it has to do with administration stuff (not the decisions they make, as that is what appeal processes are for).

Discrimination complaints are different
I believe that discrimination complaints can only be made when the incident(s) are within 'public life'. This is broader than government bodies and includes most other private entities, like the local cafe or pub. Again, this may exclude the actions of the neighbours (sigh), however it may include the police action/ non-action. I do wonder how it would relate to court decisions?!

If you felt comfortable, I think it would be super interesting to know how the QHRC approached your case, whether they were using a human rights or discimination (or both) approach and who the complaint(s) were targeted at!