VIC What can and cant security gaurds do in shopping centres and public dosabled toilets?

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MDaB

Well-Known Member
10 November 2022
28
5
149
Definately not a baby changing room. It was a disabled toilet about 5m by 3m with a toilet, sink and hand dryer. There was a bin and on the floor a bloody bandaid and piece of paper with what appeared to be chopped marijuana and a pen with ink removed so clearly it is used by druggies and the security guards are not even doing there jobs by keeping these people out yet instead target us innocent ones. Why even have security guards? I work in the supermarket and the guards there go whole shifts without stopping theft and crime and I literally have the data on how much gets shoplifted each day/week and no person is ever caught.
So maybe, just maybe, the security guards didn’t like you using a disabled toilet to charge your e-scooter!

To be completely honest, I don’t like the fact that you did either. I think you probably need to make wiser choices and maybe take some time on self reflection rather than focusing on the security guards.
 
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Magallenes

Active Member
19 June 2024
13
2
34
Can you specify how they forced the door open?
Was it locked and they broke the lock?
Was in unlocked and it was them against you keeping it shut?
Did they have a key and open it and you attempted to re-shut it?

Their knowledge of knowing you are using the charger would be a bluff unless they have cameras in the toilet which is highly illegal.

There'll be two versions to this incident, yours and theirs, with the truth somewhere in the middle.

The police will be looking at a summary offence of trespass committed by security while you were using the toilet.
It's highly likely to progress anywhere and would be very difficult to prove they trespassed and would have most likely (if interviewed by police) provided a genuine reason (duty of care, person or property) to enter into the toilet while you were occupying it.
 

MDaB

Well-Known Member
10 November 2022
28
5
149
Can you specify how they forced the door open?
Was it locked and they broke the lock?
Was in unlocked and it was them against you keeping it shut?
Did they have a key and open it and you attempted to re-shut it?

Their knowledge of knowing you are using the charger would be a bluff unless they have cameras in the toilet which is highly illegal.

There'll be two versions to this incident, yours and theirs, with the truth somewhere in the middle.

The police will be looking at a summary offence of trespass committed by security while you were using the toilet.
It's highly likely to progress anywhere and would be very difficult to prove they trespassed and would have most likely (if interviewed by police) provided a genuine reason (duty of care, person or property) to enter into the toilet while you were occupying it.
I would suggest reading (Barker v R (1983). Can you explain how you came up with the idea that the security could be the trespassers? If you look at the elements it is more likely that the OP was there as a trespasser, as soon as he refused to leave.

Honestly, this situation is just ridiculous and the OP should move on with his life. However, the legal arguments provide entertainment.
 

Magallenes

Active Member
19 June 2024
13
2
34
I would suggest reading (Barker v R (1983). Can you explain how you came up with the idea that the security could be the trespassers? If you look at the elements it is more likely that the OP was there as a trespasser, as soon as he refused to leave.

Honestly, this situation is just ridiculous and the OP should move on with his life. However, the legal arguments provide entertainment.
The case law you've posted is for a burglary, there first point of proof for a burg is to enter a premises or part of a premises as a trespasser. Our original poster has not entered as a trespasser.

To answer your question how I came up with the idea the security could be trespassers, I'll explain

Lets call the person posting this question the victim as they are making the initial complaint.
Lets also use the known facts he has provided as we have no account from the security guards.
Lets also assume, there are no cameras in the disabled toilet.

The victim has entered the disabled toilets, he has a lawful right (unless previously banned from the shopping complex) to use them as they are in a public place.
Once he is in there he has a lawful right to use them and he is now as the law stipulates it, in a "private place", a place where one out reasonably expect privacy, and he is now the lawful occupier of this private place.

The points of proof for trespass are:
  • wilfully enter a private or Scheduled public place without express or implied authority from the owner or occupier;
The security guards have entered a private place, without the express or implied consent of the occupier.

In this instance, the victim is in a private place, and is the occupier, and clearly has not given expressed consent to enter (implied consent does not exist if the door was locked)

HOWEVER, The security guards would have likely had a genuine reason for entering. I can only guess, that our person posting this may be known to them and he is a frequent flyer who uses the charger in there regularly and has been told not to, hence their reason for entering.

I'm only guessing and this part would be for the police to find out by asking them what happened.

Now lets reverse this and look at our original poster from the security guards point of view and lets now call him the "offender".

What offences has our offender possibly committed?

The toilets are in a public place so he has a right to enter them.
He has not committed a burglary, because one must first enter a premises as a trespasser with the pre-formed intent to steal, damage or harm.
He may have well and truly formed the intent to steal electricity before entering the toilet, so not a burglary but perhaps a simple theft of electricity.
In saying that, if a power point is publicly available, a reasonable person may believe they have the right to use it, and this would eliminate any mens rea from the offence.
So in summary, I dare say our security guards were investigating a theft of electricity, under what grounds I dont know, because how would they know he was using the charger? By seeing him on a camera taking his scooter in there? Previous interaction? Who knows.
Our security guards would need to have some well established reasonable grounds for entering the toilets, and i'm sure they did have.
Because if they didn't they would have a serious civil litigation fight on their hands
 

MDaB

Well-Known Member
10 November 2022
28
5
149
The case law you've posted is for a burglary, there first point of proof for a burg is to enter a premises or part of a premises as a trespasser. Our original poster has not entered as a trespasser.

To answer your question how I came up with the idea the security could be trespassers, I'll explain

Lets call the person posting this question the victim as they are making the initial complaint.
Lets also use the known facts he has provided as we have no account from the security guards.
Lets also assume, there are no cameras in the disabled toilet.

The victim has entered the disabled toilets, he has a lawful right (unless previously banned from the shopping complex) to use them as they are in a public place.
Once he is in there he has a lawful right to use them and he is now as the law stipulates it, in a "private place", a place where one out reasonably expect privacy, and he is now the lawful occupier of this private place.

The points of proof for trespass are:
  • wilfully enter a private or Scheduled public place without express or implied authority from the owner or occupier;
The security guards have entered a private place, without the express or implied consent of the occupier.

In this instance, the victim is in a private place, and is the occupier, and clearly has not given expressed consent to enter (implied consent does not exist if the door was locked)

HOWEVER, The security guards would have likely had a genuine reason for entering. I can only guess, that our person posting this may be known to them and he is a frequent flyer who uses the charger in there regularly and has been told not to, hence their reason for entering.

I'm only guessing and this part would be for the police to find out by asking them what happened.

Now lets reverse this and look at our original poster from the security guards point of view and lets now call him the "offender".

What offences has our offender possibly committed?

The toilets are in a public place so he has a right to enter them.
He has not committed a burglary, because one must first enter a premises as a trespasser with the pre-formed intent to steal, damage or harm.
He may have well and truly formed the intent to steal electricity before entering the toilet, so not a burglary but perhaps a simple theft of electricity.
In saying that, if a power point is publicly available, a reasonable person may believe they have the right to use it, and this would eliminate any mens rea from the offence.
So in summary, I dare say our security guards were investigating a theft of electricity, under what grounds I dont know, because how would they know he was using the charger? By seeing him on a camera taking his scooter in there? Previous interaction? Who knows.
Our security guards would need to have some well established reasonable grounds for entering the toilets, and i'm sure they did have.
Because if they didn't they would have a serious civil litigation fight on their hands
I think you should represent the original poster :)
 
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Dgraham62

Active Member
16 September 2020
6
0
31
I am not interested in arguing with you, you asked, I gave a reply.

If you had no authority to take power or use the power point in the bathroom, then you took that power without any authority, you can call it what you like, you were asked not to do this, but you thumbed your nose it seems (from your own writing, I have no dog in this fight). You caused the incident it seems.
I believe the authority to use the power was implied unless there was a sign stating who could or could not use it.
 

lostinspace

Well-Known Member
25 November 2023
65
6
224
I believe the authority to use the power was implied unless there was a sign stating who could or could not use it.
lol.... I saw a car with keys in it, must mean I am able to use it.

Nothing is implied, the person is not paying rent or a lease, they are there as a visitor on private property & no one, not even any of us here know who pays that power bill, certainly not the OP & it is not reasonable to think that you should be able to recharge your transport system at a shopping centre. Certainly not reasonable to take over a restroom as you do this. There is holes everywhere in the OPs story, they even have a differing version on this site.

Like someone says above, the OP should move on (I suspect it has gone nowhere), all this is self inflicted it seems, however I am sure some may not be able to remove blinkers to be able to see clearly.
 

Dgraham62

Active Member
16 September 2020
6
0
31
Nothing! is implied, really? Are you permitted to sit on a chair in the food court even though it's not yours? I believe there is implied permission to sit on it!