I used the word "signatory" (perhaps wrongly, I don't know) but the bank in correspondence referred to my contested access as "authority".
Joint Power of Attorney - Joint Access to Bank Account?
- Thread starter Ian Curtis
- Start date
I used the word "signatory" (perhaps wrongly, I don't know) but the bank in correspondence referred to my contested access as "authority".
OK, I get it. Certainly sounds like you lose in this case
Indeed. I went to the Law Library and confirmed that quote. There was nothing in the surrounding pages that saved me either.
Probably late to the party here, but this might be of assistance. Banks tend to use terminology like "signatory" and "authorising party". A signatory can make transactions on the account (ie withdrawals), but it takes an authorising party to make changes to the structure of the account - like who can be a signatory. Two very different animals.
I would consider this angle and see if you can get FOS to relook at it: Does the POA allow the attorneys to act as authorising party on the account, or simply signatories? If the latter, then, did the bank make the decision to remove you as signatory because you mother had lost capacity? In any case, it's a joint POA - not joint and several - so your sibling cannot make the determination on her own.
Depending on where you are, another potential option is an administrative tribunal. For example, in Queensland the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal (QCAT) can hear matters about adult guardianship. This would be an action directly against your sibling, and not the bank. You can read about their jurisdiction here: Decision-making for adults - QCAT Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal. Your mileage in other states may vary.
I would consider this angle and see if you can get FOS to relook at it: Does the POA allow the attorneys to act as authorising party on the account, or simply signatories? If the latter, then, did the bank make the decision to remove you as signatory because you mother had lost capacity? In any case, it's a joint POA - not joint and several - so your sibling cannot make the determination on her own.
Depending on where you are, another potential option is an administrative tribunal. For example, in Queensland the Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal (QCAT) can hear matters about adult guardianship. This would be an action directly against your sibling, and not the bank. You can read about their jurisdiction here: Decision-making for adults - QCAT Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal. Your mileage in other states may vary.
In a Kafkaesque twist, the Obudsman ruled that the bank's decision can only be examined if the objection is lodged by both me and my sibling since we have joint PoA. My being a signatory does not make them answerable to me. You will recall that my objection ironically was that they let the sibling act unilaterally to remove my signatory status despite it being a joint PoA.
Technically this means they are saying they can do what they like unless both my sibling and I complain. Hwever, they claim the PoA was not even properly executed so we couldn't contest their decision even if we wanted to.
Interestingly another bank my Mum has an account with (and to which I am also a signatory) has refused my sibling's attempt to pull the same trick.
Technically this means they are saying they can do what they like unless both my sibling and I complain. Hwever, they claim the PoA was not even properly executed so we couldn't contest their decision even if we wanted to.
Interestingly another bank my Mum has an account with (and to which I am also a signatory) has refused my sibling's attempt to pull the same trick.
Agreed. I accept that their decision is probably legally justifiable (I have given citations as to why) but they cannot be bothered justifying and it is disturbing because it smacks of contempt and they are not a truly independent government body like other Ombudsmen.
Another aspect of sloppy bank rules (which works in my favour) is that the nursing home can direct debit from that account without seeking anyone's permission. As long as nobody contests their withdrawals they are OK. I am hoping tomorrow to get them to do so without my sibling's joint approval since I am the one who has been responsible for fee payments until now. ie this whole draining exercise has been purely academic in effect.
All of this is just more reason why it will be good for the Senate to commence their proposed "Commission of Inquiry" into the banking industry (which it turns out has all the powers of a royal commission).
It shall be interesting to see how it goes with the nursing home's direct debits.
I was also in charge of my father's finances when dementia got the better of him. I was lucky in that my sister trusted me implicitly in all matters of his care. The only dramas we struck were after he passed away and the will he thought he'd had done with a solicitor some years ago, hadn't actually been signed by him. He'd been asked to go in to sign it and had never returned.
And I agree with you about a proposed enquiry into the banking industry. Desperately needed. Doesn't look like Malcolm is keen on that being pushed through though.
I was also in charge of my father's finances when dementia got the better of him. I was lucky in that my sister trusted me implicitly in all matters of his care. The only dramas we struck were after he passed away and the will he thought he'd had done with a solicitor some years ago, hadn't actually been signed by him. He'd been asked to go in to sign it and had never returned.
And I agree with you about a proposed enquiry into the banking industry. Desperately needed. Doesn't look like Malcolm is keen on that being pushed through though.
I am going through a similar exercise; I have been asking the nab to give me details and copies of the signatures 'created' for a joint bank account that my separated husband opened without my knowledge. I have proof I was interstate at the time. I only discovered it months later after the account had been closed. I have asked and asked for information and each time answers are not forthcoming. I have enlisted the FOS and am awaiting their response. I am doubtful about the process resulting in any evidence being provided by the bank. I have lost all faith in the banks. I am assuming I will need to try different banking industry supervising bodies to help cough up the truth.