Yeah, I don't see how presenting anything to the police prosecutor is likely to help you. When I had my IVO, I was encouraged (but a police officer friend) to speak to the police officer who initiated the IVO application to present evidence that it was untrue/twisted/manipulation of the system etc. The police officer met with me, pretended to be vaguely sympathetic and said they would add it to the file but nothing happened. Waste of time. Their job is to protect the person who presented to them with fear, regardless of whether it's strictly necessary or whether it's going to make a bad situation worse in the process. They don't WANT to know that the truth is complicated - it just makes their job more complicated, and to drop the case only for something serious happen to the person they were supposed to protect would be a public relations nightmare for the police, so they're just incredibly unlikely to do it. Arse-covering. Same with politicians, many of whom know that the domestic violence policy is sexist, biased, effectively criminalising many behaviours which, while obviously a problem and not what we should tolerate in society, would not otherwise be criminal action, along with not requiring the evidence that would be needed to prove beyond reasonable doubt a criminal matter, and gives vindictive partners the ability to get the upper hand in separations, especially when it involves property and children. They know this, but they're not going to stick their neck out to change it, because one genuine female victim is worth a thousand innocent people screwed by false or exaggerated allegations. Apologies for the rant, but these are the times we live in.
Interim IVO - What are my options
- Thread starter LJC
- Start date
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- intervention order
So their advice to oppose the issuing of a FV safety notice by police for kicking your partner in the shins is to list past events that you allege he has carried out, presumably to mitigate/ justify your actions?.... See how that works for you... That's just going to affirm in the magistrates mind that their is a violent relationship. Going tit for tat is not a good strategy..
You just want to admit that your emotions got the better of you at the time given the circumstances. Apologise, seek an undertaking & see how that goes..
I would NOT advise you to tell police prosecutors anything TBH.... Made that mistake myself many years ago... What they did was cherry pick every portion that they could use against me to uphold a vexatious DV.... They are not on your side
I agree with your points and that is why I am asking for advice. It is not something I want to get into, otherwise I would have presented the evidence that I have at court on Monday. I really just want to try and put the whole thing behind us and be the best parents we can be for our child.
ok so my understanding of a risk assessment is basically the litmus test a police officer would use to determine if there is the possibility of violence here.
Forget an undertaking. My understanding is they just don't happen. You could seek for the 200 metre exclusion to be removed. So you can live in the house with your partner - but this is really risky. If there is a fight and your partner calls the cops YOU WILL BE ARRESTED.
Look it is hard to give advice without knowing exactly what orders are imposed through the avo... You mentioned the 200 metre exclusion zone. What else? no communication with your partner? Are the kids listed as protected persons?
Once you tell us that you'll get better advice.
Your best bet for the minute is to get a solicitor to write to the ex asking for time with the kids. Also consider contacting Relationships Australia. Also call legal aid in your state, you might be entitled to a legal aid grant.
Forget an undertaking. My understanding is they just don't happen. You could seek for the 200 metre exclusion to be removed. So you can live in the house with your partner - but this is really risky. If there is a fight and your partner calls the cops YOU WILL BE ARRESTED.
Look it is hard to give advice without knowing exactly what orders are imposed through the avo... You mentioned the 200 metre exclusion zone. What else? no communication with your partner? Are the kids listed as protected persons?
Once you tell us that you'll get better advice.
Your best bet for the minute is to get a solicitor to write to the ex asking for time with the kids. Also consider contacting Relationships Australia. Also call legal aid in your state, you might be entitled to a legal aid grant.
Trying not to make this another rant, but this seems to be just another example of IVOs ruining families by overzealous application of the law. I'm not for a moment minimising how serious genuine domestic violence, is, and I'm also not saying kicking your partner's shins ISN'T domestic violence, but there really needs to be progressive levels to the action taken. Going straight for the nuclear option (removing a parent from the family home for 12+ months) is just terrible for all involved, and in most cases, probably not necessary to resolve the issue. It just goes to show yet again that in most cases, there's probably a bit of tit for tat back and forth low level 'violence' that comes to a head in one single incident, and whoever 'strikes first' by calling the police or getting an IVO ends up delivering 100% of the irreversible damage to the other partner's life (although the children inevitably suffer too). Although I feel for LJC in this instance and wouldn't wish an unreasonable IVO on anyone, it's pleasing on some level that for once it's a female that ends up copping one. Maybe the only way to get any kind of change to the system is when everyone, male and female, starts becoming equally accountable to the overbearing DV laws in this country and people start to rally against the damage it is doing to families... Eh, I guess it's unlikely that such voices will shout louder than the DV lobby groups though.
Sammy, she already responded that the children were listed as protected persons, she said "My daughter is still on the interim order but I can see her and collect her from the family home and school etc". So it sounds like there are no conditions that would prevent her from coming within 5 metres of her daughter or within 200 metres of school or home like most do. I do wonder about how that works in practice though. It does sound pretty toothless because effectively the only real restriction remaining is not committing family violence against the daughter. Which I accept is trivially easy to inadvertently breach if you're not careful about how you act. Even having a minor but heated disagreement in front of them about parenting could be considered 'violence' and a breach, I suppose.
And that brings me back to the original point. There should be levels to the action taken to resolve a low level DV incident. It sounds like LJC has a pretty unrestrictive IVO in the grand scheme of things, but it's still a dangerous noose to have around your neck for 12+ months, especially when given the ability to interact with the applicant and the daughter...
Sammy, she already responded that the children were listed as protected persons, she said "My daughter is still on the interim order but I can see her and collect her from the family home and school etc". So it sounds like there are no conditions that would prevent her from coming within 5 metres of her daughter or within 200 metres of school or home like most do. I do wonder about how that works in practice though. It does sound pretty toothless because effectively the only real restriction remaining is not committing family violence against the daughter. Which I accept is trivially easy to inadvertently breach if you're not careful about how you act. Even having a minor but heated disagreement in front of them about parenting could be considered 'violence' and a breach, I suppose.
And that brings me back to the original point. There should be levels to the action taken to resolve a low level DV incident. It sounds like LJC has a pretty unrestrictive IVO in the grand scheme of things, but it's still a dangerous noose to have around your neck for 12+ months, especially when given the ability to interact with the applicant and the daughter...
I am not allowed within 200 metres of the family home unless I have in writing that I can collect or drop off my daughter. I can see my daughter so long as my OH agrees (which so far has not been an issue). However, my OH works shift work, so how that will work with looking after our daughter when he is on night-shift was not taken into consideration. It is a huge mess. I got intimidated when he took me to a police station after they refused to take me into the mental health ward at the hospital. I just wanted to go home and lashed out. It was a terrible mistake that has had massive repercussions for everyone involved, especially our daughter.
So are you saying that he has to allow each instance of you attending the home or school to pick up your daughter, and if he one day refuses to give you written permission, you wouldn't be able to see her? That's asking for trouble, especially if things deteriorate further between you and your partner (it happens...).
It does sound to me like in order to get things more concrete, you may need to get a lawyer and get a formal parenting plan or consent orders put in place that would override this restriction. You may not be able to rely on his goodwill indefinitely IMO. Maybe I'm overly cynical. I don't know your circumstances in detail and you haven't really spoken much about what your OH feels about all this. Was he supportive of the IVO order being made? Sometimes the police make an application for an IVO despite the OH actually protesting that it's not necessary, if the police feel it is necessary to protect them. I don't know if that was the case here. (sorry, I re-read your original post and can now see that he never wanted the IVO in the first place... that's unfortunate... bloody police).
One thing that you need to understand though. While the Magistrates Court deals with IVOs and DV issues, the Family Court / Federal Circuit Court deals with parenting matters. So while the Magistrates Court can and will be quick to slap an order on you making it difficult for you to see your children and work with your partner/ex partner for the best interests of the child, they will do zilch to fix the damage they've done, or to put in place something that will make it manageable. That's where the FC/FCC comes in, essentially picking up the pieces, trying to figure out how best to move things forward and to make orders that can override the IVO restrictions if necessary. It's a messy system, and I think that's one of the major reasons why there are calls to reform the system and bring the Family Court under state jurisdictions.
At least if your partner is supportive of you remaining a part of your daughter (and his) life and recovering from this incident, a parenting plan and consent orders should be relatively painless. The only thing to remember is that while consent orders should in theory override restrictions of the IVO, it won't eliminate the IVO completely. You would still be liable for criminality if you breach the fundamental restriction of the IVO - no family violence (and remember that the definition of violence is extremely broad). No Family Court order is going to override the 'no family violence' order of the IVO... You will be stuck with it until the IVO expires, so be careful.
For the record also, trying to get the IVO removed is still your best bet. If you can do that and your OH forgives you and you return home, then that's the best possible outcome. But be prepared for the police to not drop it... As others have said, it's rare that they agree to an undertaking... I've heard of it happening, but it's rare.
It does sound to me like in order to get things more concrete, you may need to get a lawyer and get a formal parenting plan or consent orders put in place that would override this restriction. You may not be able to rely on his goodwill indefinitely IMO. Maybe I'm overly cynical. I don't know your circumstances in detail and you haven't really spoken much about what your OH feels about all this. Was he supportive of the IVO order being made? Sometimes the police make an application for an IVO despite the OH actually protesting that it's not necessary, if the police feel it is necessary to protect them. I don't know if that was the case here. (sorry, I re-read your original post and can now see that he never wanted the IVO in the first place... that's unfortunate... bloody police).
One thing that you need to understand though. While the Magistrates Court deals with IVOs and DV issues, the Family Court / Federal Circuit Court deals with parenting matters. So while the Magistrates Court can and will be quick to slap an order on you making it difficult for you to see your children and work with your partner/ex partner for the best interests of the child, they will do zilch to fix the damage they've done, or to put in place something that will make it manageable. That's where the FC/FCC comes in, essentially picking up the pieces, trying to figure out how best to move things forward and to make orders that can override the IVO restrictions if necessary. It's a messy system, and I think that's one of the major reasons why there are calls to reform the system and bring the Family Court under state jurisdictions.
At least if your partner is supportive of you remaining a part of your daughter (and his) life and recovering from this incident, a parenting plan and consent orders should be relatively painless. The only thing to remember is that while consent orders should in theory override restrictions of the IVO, it won't eliminate the IVO completely. You would still be liable for criminality if you breach the fundamental restriction of the IVO - no family violence (and remember that the definition of violence is extremely broad). No Family Court order is going to override the 'no family violence' order of the IVO... You will be stuck with it until the IVO expires, so be careful.
For the record also, trying to get the IVO removed is still your best bet. If you can do that and your OH forgives you and you return home, then that's the best possible outcome. But be prepared for the police to not drop it... As others have said, it's rare that they agree to an undertaking... I've heard of it happening, but it's rare.
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