VIC Getting an Earlier Hearing for Interim Orders?

[MartyK]

I have a question, Until Feb 2017 I normally pay for my children and ex expenses and etc, during the period I dont see my kids I was being told not to pay the expenses as my ex using the money to destroy me and until she is comfortable she will not come to the negotiation table. I'm the bread winner and my ex doesn't work, she get the money from central link, apart from that I pay around $1500. When it goes to Judge if i stop payig the expenses how this will reflect on my part. will it be any negative, appreciate if you can share your experiences and guidance.

Do you have a current registered child support assessment NEEMA? If so, is the $1500 you are paying to your former partner part of that assessment? If yes, and this is the amount of money that you have been assessed to pay, then yes, by law you will need to pay it.

Alternatively, if there is an assessment and you are already paying the assessed amount, and the $1500 is additional to this, then normally no. There are usually a very limited number of reasons why you would need to pay additional sums of money to that of the assessed amount.

Are you in the process of trying to settle any joint financial obligations?

If you are not registered with child support and the $1500 forms part of a private collect agreement, then if you have not done so already, you might like to check how much child support you would be assessed to pay, using the calculator in the link below. Then just pay that amount.
Online estimators - Australian Government Department of Human Services

In terms of the Courts, Judges like to hear that both parents are financially supporting the children. In fact, the parents continuing duty to maintain the child forms one of the considerations at s60CC of the Family Law Act 1975

s60CC (3)(ca) the extent to which each of the child's parents has fulfiled, or failed to fulfil, the parent's obligations to maintain the child;

 

[MartyK]

As a side note - and not wanting to divulge too much information. In a recent case I have been involved with, a parent was accused of abuse by one of the parties for obstructing financial support for the children. It resulted in the Judge making orders to the effect that certain actions could be taken by the other parent to rectify payments owing to them forthwith. This was during an interim hearing.

 

[NEEMA]

New development in my case. My ex went to court and got full IVO. I was not present in the court. I was not even aware of what happened. Court issued interim full IVO until next court date. She has asked for full IVO for next 2 years. Unbelievable.

I need to fight this IVO before it is heard. It takes 3-4 months. I can't even text to see my children now. Unbelievable she gets money from Centrelink, get all Legal Aid support free, full social worker support unbelievable. All this is because I asked for my rights as a father to see my children.

My interim order hearing in August. I spoke to my Lawyer, she says we can't do any thing as the new IVO is not full, until we fight it will already be 3-6 months any way.

I work hard, pay my taxes, do the right thing and this is how I suffer. Unfortunately family law court system itself is unbelievable.

My lawyer says nothing I can do than wait, mean while brainwash my child against me. I leave my faith in God, looks like liars have more voice than the one telling the truth....

Thank you every one for all your support.

 

[AllForHer]

Mate, you are not the first man beleageaured by a woman scorned, and you certainly won't be the last, but lucky for your kids, your case is being brought before a Court that is no stranger to the antics, at a time when those antics are not being tolerated as they used to be. Your job is to stay level-headed, sensible and an excellent role model for your kids, just as you would be if these proceedings were not on foot.

Regarding the IVO, it's not a full IVO until it's been either accepted without admissions or determined at trial. For now, it's an interim IVO. You have a couple of choices in how to proceed with this.

The first is accepting the final IVO without admissions, which is basically accepting the terms of the order without admitting any guilt over the allegations made against you. IVOs are not criminal matters unless they're breached, and they're not given much weight in Family Court if accepted without admissions because the allegations have never been proven. Parenting orders also overrule IVOs in the long run to allow kids to spend time with their parents.

The second is contesting it at trial. Since IVOs aren't criminal matters, State Courts often take a better-to-be-safe-than-sorry approach, which is of no real consequence to you generally, but the risk in contesting an IVO is that you might end up with a finding from a State Court that you have been violent. This IS something the Family Court will pay attention to, because it means the evidence of the allegations was tested and found to be credible.

Since the Family Court has a much higher threshold for what it considers to be violence that poses an unacceptable risk to children, I would rather have the allegations tested there than in a State Court.

So, the third option is to accept without admissions conditional on the children being removed as protected persons on the order and conditional on agreement that you can communicate provided it's about the kids. You could even offer to enter into undertakings in place of an order, which has a good chance of being accepted because there are concurrent parenting proceedings afoot in the Family Court. Since the IVO was sought after the Family Court proceedings were initiated, an inference might be drawn that this is just the other parent exploiting a State Court to advance their Family Court proceedings.

An IVO might seem like a gross injustice, and it probably very well is, but your focus needs to be on the Family Court matter, not the IVO. An IVO alone is nearly meaningless in Family Court, and hey, it might even be a good foundation for alleviating some of the conflict with your ex - if you can't talk, you can't fight, right? Communicate now only via her lawyer, and to save you some money, only when it's necessary.

And I hope you've stopped giving her money outside of the assessed child support amount. Oh, and one last thing to remember (and this is very important) - there is no such thing as "father's rights" in Australia. The Family Law Act 1975 says children have rights, not their parents.

It's your children's right to have a relationship with you that you're fighting for. Remember that, especially when you're in Court.

 

[MartyK]

Hi NEEMA,

Yes, this would be a very difficult time for you, and your emotions would no doubt be exacerbated by the fact that you are presently not seeing your son.

If I understand correctly, your IVO Hearing is in August and your next Family Court appearance is in or around the same time?

The Judge opted to make no orders for visitation at the first appearance? You had a lawyer on the day? Can you remember if the mothers lawyer raised anything, similar to claims raised in the IVO, even if not yet proven, that could have lead to no orders for time being made? Sorry, just trying to establish if there is any connection between the two so I can give you a better response.

Stay strong for your son and continue to listen to the advice given to you by your lawyer about your Family Court matter, and now also the IVO.

 

[NEEMA]

Hi NEEMA,

Yes, this would be a very difficult time for you, and your emotions would no doubt be exacerbated by the fact that you are presently not seeing your son.

If I understand correctly, your IVO Hearing is in August and your next Family Court appearance is in or around the same time?

The Judge opted to make no orders for visitation at the first appearance? You had a lawyer on the day? Can you remember if the mothers lawyer raised anything, similar to claims raised in the IVO, even if not yet proven, that could have lead to no orders for time being made? Sorry, just trying to establish if there is any connection between the two so I can give you a better response.

Stay strong for your son and continue to listen to the advice given to you by your lawyer about your Family Court matter, and now also the IVO.

Hi Marty,

My IVO first hearing date end of April 2017. That day I will go and say that I want to contest the matter. I will not do the mistake I did as accepting without admission. This was a mistake I made with my ex as a Primary Parent. My Child custody interim order date is in August 2017, that's my next Family Court appearance.

In my first hearing, Judge put my children on AFP Airport watch-list. He refused to hear the children Interim Orders. My ex had the duty lawyer that day. I had my personal lawyer. My time was around 10am. Due to my ex not having a lawyer, things pushed down to the afternoon.

Surprising fact, total court time didn't even take more than 2 minutes. Looks like Judge was constantly in touch with the duty lawyer. The Judge opted to make no orders for visitation at the first appearance.

I had a lawyer on that day. My lawyer tried hard to push for Interim Order hearing. Judge shunned my lawyer, I don't know why, felt like judge was my opposition lawyer.

The best part was the opposition lawyer representing my ex raised nothing, except to introduce his client to the court. No claims raised about IVO, but I felt the judge must have considered my IVO even though it is not yet proven. I feel that it was the key factor leading to the Judge's decision to make no order until Aug 2017.

He suggested both parties should communicate outside the court regarding the child arrangements. Now my ex took full interim IVO, it's a another 6 months before my challenge goes to hearing and it gets finalised. The final hearing for IVO and then followed by family court. Overall 6 months away from my children.

I spoke to my lawyer, looks like I have no other choice than to wait!

 

[NEEMA]

Mate, you are not the first man beleageaured by a woman scorned, and you certainly won't be the last, but lucky for your kids, your case is being brought before a Court that is no stranger to the antics, at a time when those antics are not being tolerated as they used to be. Your job is to stay level-headed, sensible and an excellent role model for your kids, just as you would be if these proceedings were not on foot.

Regarding the IVO, it's not a full IVO until it's been either accepted without admissions or determined at trial. For now, it's an interim IVO. You have a couple of choices in how to proceed with this.


The second is contesting it at trial. Since IVOs aren't criminal matters, State Courts often take a better-to-be-safe-than-sorry approach, which is of no real consequence to you generally, but the risk in contesting an IVO is that you might end up with a finding from a State Court that you have been violent. This IS something the Family Court will pay attention to, because it means the evidence of the allegations was tested and found to be credible.


An IVO might seem like a gross injustice, and it probably very well is, but your focus needs to be on the Family Court matter, not the IVO. An IVO alone is nearly meaningless in Family Court, and hey, it might even be a good foundation for alleviating some of the conflict with your ex - if you can't talk, you can't fight, right? Communicate now only via her lawyer, and to save you some money, only when it's necessary.

It's your children's right to have a relationship with you that you're fighting for. Remember that, especially when you're in Court.

Hi, Thank you for your reply, much appreciated. I will contest the matter. Today I'm not the primary parent because in the first instance, I accepted without admission. I will not do that mistake again. I can very clearly see, even though there is nothing proved against me, judge looked at my side as a violent person in the federal circuit court. It's a opportunity for me to set the record for the gross injustice done to me since the first IVO.

My ex is going to religious councils now, they have summoned me to discuss the matter. Only place I go to get peace from my troubles is through prayer, she is making it worst for me to go and do that either. People will know me, and I kept my personal troubles very secret due to social anxiety I have very private person. I'm now vulnerable. She once threatened me that she will come to my work place, I think that will be her next step.

None of my colleagues know my troubles, I want to keep my life private. I'm planning to apply for IVO against my ex and her family. I have the evidences of abusing my eldest son, which I will go to court, apply me and my son as protected person.

This will give protection from intervention in my private life and peace of mind. Protection to my child. Once again thank you for your help.

 

[MartyK]

Hi NEEMA,

Thank you for getting back to us.

Yes, you may well be right that the Interim Order (IVO), and Notice of Risk (if filed and detailing same), was taken into account during the first appearance and led to the current orders. Unfortunately, the Family Courts, in the interim period at least, will often make 'err on the side of caution orders' when certain allegations are raised. This can mean either supervised time or a period of no time.

Rest assured, however, that provided no further risks (even if not yet proven) are raised and considered as extenuating by the Court, then usually as the matter moves through the system, time will indeed be granted and increased. I realise this waiting period can feel like an eternity!

RE - the IVO and contesting it. What does your lawyer say?

While I understand that it may seem like the right thing to do to contest it, especially when you believe the allegations are false, contesting an IVO is not easy as you may think. Allegations can be difficult to disprove (Magistrates Court) with the onus of proof being relatively low, and, while it is possible to successfully contest a violence order, I know people who have, it is never easy or straightforward. Nothing to do with law is.

If you have solid evidence that the allegations are false and/or have strong grounds (and evidence) for a cross-application, I'd be the first person to say explore your options further and never just settle on 'consent without admissions'. After all, why should you consent if you could prove otherwise.

However, just keep in mind that many more things will be taken into consideration in the Family Courts, and, while the interim IVO may have led to the current orders, if looking at a bigger picture (further along in the process), it may well be easier (if you do not have solid evidence to contest the IVO) to just consent without admissions to get it out of the way. You can then concentrate your energies on just the parenting matters. Up to you of course!

Good luck!

 

[NEEMA]

Hi NEEMA,


RE - the IVO and contesting it. What does your lawyer say?

While I understand that it may seem like the right thing to do to contest it, especially when you believe the allegations are false, contesting an IVO is not easy as you may think. Allegations can be difficult to disprove (Magistrates Court) with the onus of proof being relatively low, and, while it is possible to successfully contest a violence order, I know people who have, it is never easy or straightforward. Nothing to do with law is.

Good luck!

Hi Martyk,

Thank you very much for the reply.

My lawyer asked me what I want to do with the IVO, then I suggested that I wished to contest. My lawyer is of the opinion that we should contest. This IVO is taken to alienate me from my children for the next two years. Also gain undue advantage in the family court order.

Given the circumstances changed after the first order, like IVO, no access to children, is there no way we can approach federal circuit court for an urgent Interim Order hearing.

Thank you for your time

 

[NEEMA]

Hi, I have evidences of my ex telling my son that I have another wife and will have children and that I left my son and I don't love him.

She is basically feeding poison to my child, trying to turn him against me. Until I'm away for 6 to 8 months, what can I do to protect my child?