NSW Filing contravention order

[Philly2020]

ok, not sure if I'm reading this right.
As to phone calls. Look, I hate my advice but I'd give up on that one. Some battles are just not worth it.
But is mum also refusing to give access as per orders?
and what sort of time do the orders stipulate you're to have with the child?

Parent A feels it is important for the child to maintain having contact by phone during the week about with Parent B, so Parent A is inclined to file a contravention order if Parent B's refusual to follow the orders and failure to facilitate contact continues (likely to happen, as been told by Parent B via text message that they will not be following this order).

Time is 50/50 shared care, week about, thus far parent B has not witheld since new orders signed by consent only weeks ago.

Parent A believes that Parent B will continue to breach orders and withhold child in the future at times that is convenient for Parent B, such as long weekends, events and times they believe the child 'should' be with them. Parent A intends to file contraventions should this occur.

Parent A has the intention to file as many contraventions as necessary to have Parent B comply with orders and is prepared to pay those costs if it is likely the orders will be enforced.

Parent A has been told that it is likely there will be no serious consequences should Parent B be found guilty of contravening the orders unless Parent B continues to do so, which suggests that Parent A will need to file up to 4 contravention orders before Parent B receives any punishment.

 

[Philly2020]

Sammy, why give up?

The orders state that twice weekly phone calls to the other parent are to occur. If Parent A is prepared to face the financial costs to file a contravention and has hard evidence that Parent B has shown a total disregard for this order, how is it not in Parent A's best interest to do this?

 

[sammy01]

why give up?
Well. Let's start.
1. Amateur child psychologist. Kids live in the here and now - what is right in front of them... Bloody easy to distract them when they're on the phone. Your ex will play these stupid games and win every time.
2. You go to court. What is gonna happen? Judge will tell her she must follow orders. That is it. NOTHING.
3. She will learn to play the game and win. Why not go to court for a look. You'll see a whole bunch of men standing in a puddle of ciggie butts. They are the slow learners. They're the ones whose ex's keep breaching orders every time they come to court they expect the judge to do something... NOTHING happens. A judge isn't gonna send a mum to jail for not answering her phone.
4. Based on the above the ex will start learning that the courts are a toothless tiger and she will breach other orders.

Mate if you're still getting access to the kids as per orders then realise that this whole phone thing is just her flexing her muscles because she can. Stop the phone calls stop the opportunity for her to screw you over.

 

[Philly2020]

why give up?
Well. Let's start.
1. Amateur child psychologist. Kids live in the here and now - what is right in front of them... Bloody easy to distract them when they're on the phone. Your ex will play these stupid games and win every time.
2. You go to court. What is gonna happen? Judge will tell her she must follow orders. That is it. NOTHING.
3. She will learn to play the game and win. Why not go to court for a look. You'll see a whole bunch of men standing in a puddle of ciggie butts. They are the slow learners. They're the ones whose ex's keep breaching orders every time they come to court they expect the judge to do something... NOTHING happens. A judge isn't gonna send a mum to jail for not answering her phone.
4. Based on the above the ex will start learning that the courts are a toothless tiger and she will breach other orders.

Mate if you're still getting access to the kids as per orders then realise that this whole phone thing is just her flexing her muscles because she can. Stop the phone calls stop the opportunity for her to screw you over.

Sammy, there seems to be a little confusion, I apologise for not being more concise with my questions.

Parent A does not expect there to be huge consequences for Parent B if contraventions are filed for refusing facilitate a phone call. Keeping in mind it isn't a matter of 'not answering the phone' and more of 'has an obligation to MAKE the phone call'. Regardless, I acknowledge a judge is unlikely to send a parent to jail for this alone. However, as I've stated, there is a high probability of Parent B breaching the orders in other ways, most severely by withholding the child for days outside of court-ordered time.

The writers thought is that if contraventions are filed for the smaller stuff first, when the big stuff happens there is already a pattern of disregard and a judge is more likely to either make changes to the order in favour of parent A or hand down some form of punishment which could be incentive for Parent B to reconsider their behaviour.

Now, I have read many of your comments Sammy and am aware of some of your experiences with the family court and your crazy nutbag ex-wife. I know in the end you ended up primary carer of your children, and have found peace, but Sammy, could your personal experiences possibly be clouding your opinion here? I'm sure you're convinced youre just being a realist, but geez, you're being quite pessimistic! No offense intended.

Also, your responses include gender roles, and I've made sure that I've referred to the parents in a gender-neutral way, which again makes me think perhaps your personal experiences could be influencing your opinion.

 

[sammy01]

Of course my experience clouds my judgement. Another way of putting it is my experience is what informs my judgement.
Sure you've got me on the gender thing. Guilty as charged. My bad.

You wrote:"Is it likely a judge would consider filing a contravention for not facilitating contact twice a week as per the orders, trivial and a waste of courts time?"

The answer is YES. Trivial and a waste of courts time. WORSE magistrate must consider making an order that would best prevent more court time from happening. Judge could order to cancel phone calls and I reckon that would be a reasonable (not good) result. WHY? well different story if you only had phone time and some school holidays. Basically the phone call would be a huge part of you maintaining a relationship with the kid. But with 50/50 care the phone call isn't a huge part of the equation.

Right now. Do nothing. Sure, you should write to the ex and inform him/her that you expect them to comply with the orders. But I wouldn't be writing everytime it happens.... And in the event that the OP starts witholding THEN you lodge the contravention and include the phone calls in it....

But short anwer- filing contravention for not facilitiating phone contact? Yep waste of courts time and trivial

 

[Atticus]

But short anwer- filing contravention for not facilitiating phone contact? Yep waste of courts time and trivial

I agree...

@Philly2020 I wrongly assumed when I first read your original post that this involved withholding contact... When you clarified that it only involved phone contact, that completely changed my opinion.

The court would expect that you mediate a resolution to this sort of breach.... Failing that, the phone contraventions should form part of a wider C application later if withholding begins.... if it were to go to court as is, mum might come up with any amount of reasons why facilitating the phone contact was not possible, ie, a reasonable excuse for each breach.. End result could be that a judge varies existing order to do away with it altogether.

 

[BLT 1981]

Hi Guys

Do you mind if I add some of my personal experience here.

why give up?
Well. Let's start.
1. Amateur child psychologist. Kids live in the here and now - what is right in front of them... Bloody easy to distract them when they're on the phone. Your ex will play these stupid games and win every time.
2. You go to court. What is gonna happen? Judge will tell her she must follow orders. That is it. NOTHING.
3. She will learn to play the game and win. Why not go to court for a look. You'll see a whole bunch of men standing in a puddle of ciggie butts. They are the slow learners. They're the ones whose ex's keep breaching orders every time they come to court they expect the judge to do something... NOTHING happens. A judge isn't gonna send a mum to jail for not answering her phone.
4. Based on the above the ex will start learning that the courts are a toothless tiger and she will breach other orders.

Mate if you're still getting access to the kids as per orders then realise that this whole phone thing is just her flexing her muscles because she can. Stop the phone calls stop the opportunity for her to screw you over.

2 years ago I would not have agreed with the above now I do. Why?

After fighting in court for nearly 10 years I am just about done. I have been in and out of the family court so many times I have lost count. I have watched Judges throw the pervivial book at my ex. I will go back to court again next month because my Ex has contravened final orders again. I have had success everytime single and received make up time and costs. I do the right thing and pay over $3400.00 a month in child support.

However I am extremely concerned about the effect it is having on our children. It is not healthy for them. You are 100% right "Kids live in the here and now - what is right in front of them" The mother involves them directly in our dispute tells them she has to because if she doesnt the judge will send her to gaol. Lets them read our emails and totally denergates me in front of the kids. She has thought our children that they do not need to respect me or my family. I can see how much my children dislike me and communication with our children is now broken. It breaks my heart to see this. I can also see their confusion. What I don't understand how such a smart intelligent and well educated women can subject her children to this.

I can really only see one option left open unless the something radical happens in court in the next few months.

Yes, I understand your situation and would respect any reasonable path or decision you choose to make. If you continue I wish you success for your children and you.

Of course my experience clouds my judgement. Another way of putting it is my experience is what informs my judgement.
Sure you've got me on the gender thing. Guilty as charged. My bad.

Agree my judgement is also clouded because I am directly involved and no matter how hard I try I cannot fully separate emotion. They are my children.

Let me ask a question "Do the Australian courts recognize parental alienation"?

Have a nice day

BLT