VIC Family Law Trial - Use of Audio Recordings?

[Dadsta]

Thank you again Sammy. Just to be clear, in no way shape or form will I be seeking that the mother doesn’t have an important role to play in our child’s life. The argument I strike is that he will be in a much more emotionally stable environment in my care.

My case is for said child to reside with me & spend time with the mother.

Nope - I'm not implying that because of your gender you're incapable of looking after a child full time. I've been doing it for 3 kids since the youngest was 4.... But that was not because of court and I'm a bloke

Mate I post here and give advice based on the info provided... So - had you told us that there are recommendation from the family report writer to indicate that there are issues with mum and a change of residency might be considered, then the advice I give would be different.... (KINDA) Still reckon you can forget full time residency.... So because mum is a twit, she should never see her kid again... That is whay full time residency is... Look the only reason the could would do that is if mum was incapable of looking after the kid (ice addict)

So my advice - go for primary care with the mum having access as the court sees fit. OR based on recommendation of the report writer... And if the report writere recommends zero time with mum. FINE.. But mate, I can only give advice based on info provided

 

[MartyK]

You are recording in plain view of the mother and the ICL has expressly requested you cease these recordings? You have decided to ignore these requests? Be aware, it will be the ICL/ICL barrister, not the family report writer, who cross-examine you if your matter proceeds to trial.

 

[Dadsta]

I’m really struggling with this Matthew. The ICL doesn’t support it, however my barrister has advised me to do it anyway as it takes out “heresay” and any “tit for tat” arguments over heavy accusations.

I’m confident that if I did stop prior to trial that even more mud would be flung my way and I’d have no defence other than just to deny.

Does this make sense?

You are recording in plain view of the mother and the ICL has expressly requested you cease these recordings? You have decided to ingnore these requests? Be aware, it will be the ICL/ICL barrister, not the family report writer, who cross-examine you if your matter proceeds to trial.

 

[sammy01]

Stop doing the recordings... It is madness, especially if the ICL has told you to stop.

Not much legal opinion today mate - just perception from someone who reckons he has played this system well...

Trust me... Madness...

Mate, I have been there... My ex is a nutter. I don't much care for diagnosing people. It isn't my job. I don't care if she is a narcissistic, a borderline personality disordered bowl of soup... She is a nutter. When her craziness started to cause me to do crazy s**t, I realised there was a problem...

Mate I was taking money out at the ATM that had a notice on it saying it was recording, twice a day... I chose that one so their video could 'prove' I was there. See the ex was claiming I was stalking her.... So I'm keeping bank withdrawal receipts, going to the same ATM and racking up bank fees because I wanted to be able to prove I was no-where near her when she was claiming I was driving past her house... She is mad - bat sh*t crazy mad... It is infectious - I was becoming mad too.... So are you...

Forget the audio - forget proving she is mad... She'll do that for you. Forget proving innocence - that is criminal law... Best opinion I can give you?

Story time... Mate changeovers were crazy - she would often film me (video). She would even tell me to stand in-front of my car so she could get me and the number-plate in the one shot - (No idea). But I'd argue, rightly so, after all this is crazy s**t... Sometimes she would throw soiled clothes at me, then start filming... All sorts of crazy stuff... Sound familiar?

So I changed my approach - One day, I decided I was going to pretend that there was an insanely hot woman casually walking past about 15 metres behind her. (Sorry ladies - yep I'm sexist...) So she would be telling me off, telling me god only knows what... But I was pretending to not pay attention, my attention was consumed by the insanely hot woman that was not there...

Every once in a while I'd say things like, 'ok sure no worries." or "sure thanks, just email me the details' all the while casually, not ogling, I'm not a perv, just pre-occupied by the non-existent woman.

I got so good at it that she would occasionally look around and ask what I'm looking at... And I'd respond, "oh sorry, did you say something'. I even started practicing my passive / ambivalent responses. I trained myself not to get anxious or angry... It took a while and initially, her response was to goad me even more to try and get a response... All the while, I played dead-pan... and I almost started to enjoy the little joke I was having with myself.... Mate it was a sh#t load better than having to drop a vallium before seeing her...

After about 3 months, I think she lost the will to fight because she wasn't getting the response she was after...Give that a go and leave the audio recording to Richard Nixon and Watergate...

Remember - she can accuse you of everything. But she has to prove it and when she can't it is her credibility that gets damaged, not yours. Of course your barrister wants you to keep doing it... That poor barrister has kids, and they have expensive school fees that need paying, that is what you're for...

 

[thatbloke]

I would continue to record the calls to protect your own lawful interests and not give a toss what a lawyer for the other side says. The downside of this is that, if the other side know you are recording they might suddenly be on their best behaviour during changeovers. I know I would!

If the time comes to use them then let the professionals decide if they are to be used or dumped. No harm can be done by having them in your Arsenal.

I have a guy who I am helping at the moment, he is represented and he is and will be using recordings in a hearing this week. His lawyer has already quoted them in affidavits and is confident they are relevant

 

[Dadsta]

Sammy - Firstly, thank you for sharing your unfortunate experiences. I can relate only all too well & hearing your story was akin to reliving many memories of my own experiences. You know I used to let these games get to me & suffer some anxiety much like you. Now, a few lines that I only ever use & repeat over include; No worries, I’m just here to pick up “A”.

See you later; Have a nice day. I’ve learnt the exact same way that engaging in any argument is fruitless.


Now... When I return my son in fresh pyjamas after his bath I’m scalded (in writing and voice dialogue) for not putting him back in to his daytime clothes as requested by her. I do not receive his pyjamas back, even after requesting so. I don’t argue about this & buy a new set for each day that I have him.

There’s definitely a fear to stop recording. You’ve provided much needed reassurance in the best possible way that it is up to her to prove her “madness” & fortunately she won’t be able to. I’ll take your help onboard for sure. Thank you very much!

 

[MartyK]

I’m really struggling with this Matthew. The ICL doesn’t support it, however my barrister has advised me to do it anyway as it takes out “heresay” and any “tit for tat” arguments over heavy accusations.

I’m confident that if I did stop prior to trial that even more mud would be flung my way and I’d have no defence other than just to deny.

Does this make sense?

I undertstand you have concerns, Dadsta. While recording, such as you are doing, is not illegal in Victoria (unlike some States), the issue herein, for you, lies not in the legality of the recording itself but more in the possible backlash on your own “behaviour” in continuing to record.

If you choose to continue, I would suggest you not do it in plain view.

 

[Dadsta]

I’ve never tried to hide it & have been upfront about doing so as a means only of protecting myself. These recordings have never been used as a weapon against her, even during misconduct from her during changeovers. I have no interest in showing the court that I’m argumentative by using it as a tool to show the mothers immaturity and hostility during changeovers. Rather, I will elaborate about that in an affidavit.

It must be noted that phone calls aren’t recorded. Just face to face interactions.

In spite of this, mostly the mother will say nothing rather than argue because of the discreet microphone. Sometimes she just can’t help herself. I’ve learnt not to engage in her utter crap.

i would continue to record the calls to protect your own lawful interests and not give a toss what a lawyer for the other side says. The downside of this is that, if the other side know you are recording they might suddenly be on their best behaviour during changeovers. I know i would!

If the time comes to use them then let the professionals decide if they are to be used or dumped. No harm can be done by having them in your Arsenal.

I have a guy who i am helping at the moment, he is represented and he is and will be using recordings in a hearing this week. His lawyer has already quoted them in affidavits and is confident they are relevant

 

[Dadsta]

Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Previously I’ve used my phone in my pocket. This hasn’t always been clear though & now I wear a small clip on microphone with a wind sock that discreetly sits at the top of my T-Shirt. It’s only obvious if you know it’s there.

I undertstand you have concerns, Dadsta. While recording, such as you are doing, is not illegal in Victoria (unlike some States), the issue herein, for you, lies not in the legality of the recording itself but more in the possible backlash on your own “behaviour” in continuing to record.

If you choose to continue, I would suggest you not do it in plain view.

 

[MartyK]

It’s only obvious if you know it’s there.

The issue you have is that the mother, and by consequence, the ICL, know it is there.