NSW Family Law - Help with Interpreting Parenting Orders
- Thread starter Fluffy
- Start date
-
- Tags
- family law
He gets four hours between 3pm and 7pm.
Gee, it makes me sad for the child that such a basic concession requires a court order and then actual interpretation of that order. If it were my kid and her dad, I would be happy for him to take her for as long as he wanted on his birthday, because she deserves the opportunity to celebrate her dad's birthday with him.
Gee, it makes me sad for the child that such a basic concession requires a court order and then actual interpretation of that order. If it were my kid and her dad, I would be happy for him to take her for as long as he wanted on his birthday, because she deserves the opportunity to celebrate her dad's birthday with him.
Agree... it was like that, I was willing and flexible as it was about her and not me, but he out of the blue threatens to take me back to court for more time and then throws it back in my face that I don't follow the orders, where in fact the additional times I allowed were for his benefit and his request.
So now I have to stick to the orders. I need to make sure I understand them. I would've been more than willing to allow him as much time necessary but I then open myself up for him to throw it back in my face. Lost.
So now I have to stick to the orders. I need to make sure I understand them. I would've been more than willing to allow him as much time necessary but I then open myself up for him to throw it back in my face. Lost.
Keep the best interest of your child in mind and ignore the game playing and abuse by the father. Just keep on being a good mum for your daughter's sake.
I've raised with you before some concerns that I felt about your attitude toward the father of your child, and I've pointed out how that attitude may damage your case. This most recent post has really done very little to alleviate the same fears that I had before, so I'm going to be fairly blunt here, and I apologise in advance if you take offence, it is not my intention, I am merely trying to help you change your perspective for your own benefit.
So, first, please understand that in saying that you "allow" the child to spend time with her father, it implies you want praise for "allowing" your daughter to enjoy her legal right to have a relationship with him. Anyone who thinks they are in a position of such power to allow or deny someone the freedom to enjoy their legal rights, rarely wins favour in a Court of law, even less so when they think such an attitude deserves praise, and less again when they want praise for "allowing as much time as necessary".
It is also folly to imply that the child's time with her father, whether ordered or agreed, is just for his benefit. I am certain it would be for his benefit, but as far as you are concerned, or should be concerned, it is more importantly for hers.
Given the context of your previous posts, as well, it does not surprise me that the father would tell you, threaten you, whatever, that he wants more time with his daughter. You've asked this forum questions about whether he, the biological father and co-creator of that child, has any legal right to pursue time with his kid, simply because he's not on the birth certificate. You also inquired as to whether you should abscond with the child to New Zealand without her father's consent. Here, you're asking about the interpretation of an order regarding just one single hour of additional time for the child to spend with her father on his birthday.
It's very clear to anyone with the ability to read that you think your daughter should not enjoy the benefits of having a meaningful relationship with her father. I can't imagine how the father would be able to avoid taking this impression from you, I can't imagine how he would not have concerns that the child's relationship with him would suffer a result of your overt desire to oust him from her life, and frankly, I can't see how he could hope to have that concern resolved without going back to Court. The natural consequence of the impression you give is that he would like to spend more time with his child, to make sure that meaningful relationship is entrenched and not ruptured by your inability to understand the damage you do to your child by frustrating her time with her father.
Saying you are willing and flexible amounts to very little in Court when there is evidence that shows you haven't been willing or flexible at all. Willing is not inquiring about abduction to another country. Willing is not leaving the father off his child's birth certificate. Flexibility is not having to ask for an interpretation about a single hour of time for the child to spend with her father on his birthday. What kind of evidence have you given the father to produce to the Court, if this is the kind of evidence you've produced just in this forum?
Again, I apologise if this is blunt. I am fed up to the teeth with seeing parents lose custody of their kids because they don't understand how their own attitude is hurting their child and their case. Please, for your own sake, have some perspective and think very carefully about how your actions can be interpreted by the Court.
So, first, please understand that in saying that you "allow" the child to spend time with her father, it implies you want praise for "allowing" your daughter to enjoy her legal right to have a relationship with him. Anyone who thinks they are in a position of such power to allow or deny someone the freedom to enjoy their legal rights, rarely wins favour in a Court of law, even less so when they think such an attitude deserves praise, and less again when they want praise for "allowing as much time as necessary".
It is also folly to imply that the child's time with her father, whether ordered or agreed, is just for his benefit. I am certain it would be for his benefit, but as far as you are concerned, or should be concerned, it is more importantly for hers.
Given the context of your previous posts, as well, it does not surprise me that the father would tell you, threaten you, whatever, that he wants more time with his daughter. You've asked this forum questions about whether he, the biological father and co-creator of that child, has any legal right to pursue time with his kid, simply because he's not on the birth certificate. You also inquired as to whether you should abscond with the child to New Zealand without her father's consent. Here, you're asking about the interpretation of an order regarding just one single hour of additional time for the child to spend with her father on his birthday.
It's very clear to anyone with the ability to read that you think your daughter should not enjoy the benefits of having a meaningful relationship with her father. I can't imagine how the father would be able to avoid taking this impression from you, I can't imagine how he would not have concerns that the child's relationship with him would suffer a result of your overt desire to oust him from her life, and frankly, I can't see how he could hope to have that concern resolved without going back to Court. The natural consequence of the impression you give is that he would like to spend more time with his child, to make sure that meaningful relationship is entrenched and not ruptured by your inability to understand the damage you do to your child by frustrating her time with her father.
Saying you are willing and flexible amounts to very little in Court when there is evidence that shows you haven't been willing or flexible at all. Willing is not inquiring about abduction to another country. Willing is not leaving the father off his child's birth certificate. Flexibility is not having to ask for an interpretation about a single hour of time for the child to spend with her father on his birthday. What kind of evidence have you given the father to produce to the Court, if this is the kind of evidence you've produced just in this forum?
Again, I apologise if this is blunt. I am fed up to the teeth with seeing parents lose custody of their kids because they don't understand how their own attitude is hurting their child and their case. Please, for your own sake, have some perspective and think very carefully about how your actions can be interpreted by the Court.
Well - that was harsh - well meaning and probably called for...
But for the moment, let's work with the question at hand. It seems strange... 4hours If 3-7 but only 3 hours if outside that time... So if dad suggests 2.30pm pick up, he only gets 3 hours?
Given these are interim orders and I'm gonna try and ignore AllForHer's comments... (not that I don't agree btw) but based purely on the info in your post and without any of the (insightful) background information provided by AllForHer....
Here is my opinion...
Dad is entitled to 4 hours, if he picks up at 3pm... He is entitled to 3 hours if the pick up is at a different time... That is the letter of the law.
What should you do? Send ex a text -
Dear ex. Please advise of the arrangements you would like for your birthday. Please be aware that if you would like an additional hour or so with child please just organise to pick the child up earlier. I'd prefer the child was returned at 7pm to maintain sleeping routine. I hope you have a happy birthday...
Why should you do this? Well - the best way to protect your child from the harm that parental conflict causes is to not make conflict. The sooner you do that, the sooner the ex will do the same. It is hard but it is worth it. The other reason... If you are constantly offering additional time and you are always at changeovers on time, your ex does not have a case...
So since I've been good enough to spend some time giving you suggestions... Can I ask a favour?
Why not tell us what sort of time dad is asking for... What sort of time are you prepared to agree to?Maybe just maybe the good folk here can give you enough advice to encourage you to either continue with the case or maybe pack it in...
Story time - my ex spent lots of money on solicitors, so did I. I wanted 50/50 she wanted me to have 3 nights a fortnight. Lots of money wasted... In the end I got 5 a fortnight. So no-one won. We both lost... I was prepared to compromise at 5 a fortnight, but the ex was not...
So more money on solicitors.... Now if you can't afford a solicitor that is ok, but can you afford the stress? Maybe giving a little and moving on with your life is a better idea... Just a thought.
But for the moment, let's work with the question at hand. It seems strange... 4hours If 3-7 but only 3 hours if outside that time... So if dad suggests 2.30pm pick up, he only gets 3 hours?
Given these are interim orders and I'm gonna try and ignore AllForHer's comments... (not that I don't agree btw) but based purely on the info in your post and without any of the (insightful) background information provided by AllForHer....
Here is my opinion...
Dad is entitled to 4 hours, if he picks up at 3pm... He is entitled to 3 hours if the pick up is at a different time... That is the letter of the law.
What should you do? Send ex a text -
Dear ex. Please advise of the arrangements you would like for your birthday. Please be aware that if you would like an additional hour or so with child please just organise to pick the child up earlier. I'd prefer the child was returned at 7pm to maintain sleeping routine. I hope you have a happy birthday...
Why should you do this? Well - the best way to protect your child from the harm that parental conflict causes is to not make conflict. The sooner you do that, the sooner the ex will do the same. It is hard but it is worth it. The other reason... If you are constantly offering additional time and you are always at changeovers on time, your ex does not have a case...
So since I've been good enough to spend some time giving you suggestions... Can I ask a favour?
Why not tell us what sort of time dad is asking for... What sort of time are you prepared to agree to?Maybe just maybe the good folk here can give you enough advice to encourage you to either continue with the case or maybe pack it in...
Story time - my ex spent lots of money on solicitors, so did I. I wanted 50/50 she wanted me to have 3 nights a fortnight. Lots of money wasted... In the end I got 5 a fortnight. So no-one won. We both lost... I was prepared to compromise at 5 a fortnight, but the ex was not...
So more money on solicitors.... Now if you can't afford a solicitor that is ok, but can you afford the stress? Maybe giving a little and moving on with your life is a better idea... Just a thought.
Thanks Sammy01 for that. What is disappointing is that I took on board all the help I was given here, previously by AllForHer and ironically she is criticising me for merely asking a stupid question which may seem to her but definitely not to me. Everything I have been through I have put what was in the best interest of my daughter. Allowing longer visiting hours, giving additional time outside of the orders only for him to use it against me.
The last straw was his birthday, I told him that he is more than welcome to have his daughter for longer on the day so they can celebrate only for him to say he now has evidence that the reason why I'm giving him extra time is because I'm not capable of looking after her. I sat outside his house when I went to pick her up after an hour and a half trip to get there, I saw them playing with the ball in the yard, so I thought I would give them an extra 15 to 20mins, only for him to say that I'm irresponsible for not turning up on time. Is this the attitude of someone not willing? So he is now pushing to gain 50/50.
AllForHer attacking me and insenuating that my attitude is hurting my child is merely you're blind opinion of a situation you assume you understand and an insult. When I first came here to seek advice it was from a mothers Desperate plea and ignorance to giving up my child who I've raised on my own. Having said that, I took on your suggestions and my attitude changed and to this day, its all about her and what's best for her. I have spent thousands of dollars and my daughters life savings on court costs and lawyers fees.
I cannot afford to pay anymore which is why I'm back here. I initially self represented myself cause I didn't have enough money for a lawyer then when I needed a lawyer I got no benefit from her, I wrote up my own affidavits and responses to his lawyer and submitted my own paperwork. I have been knocked from pillar to post but still going. He does not see my willingness and flexibility is for her and their relationship, he sees it as me not being capable of raising her.
I'm now at a crossroad of fear that I'm going do the wrong thing merely coz I don't understand some of the things written in the court order. The Barrister I spent my money on didn't explain the court orders. So I'm lost.
Sammy01 believe you me, I was willing to give him an additional week day and maybe a week each of school holidays, I still am, but he wants 50/50 and a week with him a week with me. My daughter goes to a school a street down from our house, her father lives an hour away, it would break her little heart if she has to leave her school.
The last straw was his birthday, I told him that he is more than welcome to have his daughter for longer on the day so they can celebrate only for him to say he now has evidence that the reason why I'm giving him extra time is because I'm not capable of looking after her. I sat outside his house when I went to pick her up after an hour and a half trip to get there, I saw them playing with the ball in the yard, so I thought I would give them an extra 15 to 20mins, only for him to say that I'm irresponsible for not turning up on time. Is this the attitude of someone not willing? So he is now pushing to gain 50/50.
AllForHer attacking me and insenuating that my attitude is hurting my child is merely you're blind opinion of a situation you assume you understand and an insult. When I first came here to seek advice it was from a mothers Desperate plea and ignorance to giving up my child who I've raised on my own. Having said that, I took on your suggestions and my attitude changed and to this day, its all about her and what's best for her. I have spent thousands of dollars and my daughters life savings on court costs and lawyers fees.
I cannot afford to pay anymore which is why I'm back here. I initially self represented myself cause I didn't have enough money for a lawyer then when I needed a lawyer I got no benefit from her, I wrote up my own affidavits and responses to his lawyer and submitted my own paperwork. I have been knocked from pillar to post but still going. He does not see my willingness and flexibility is for her and their relationship, he sees it as me not being capable of raising her.
I'm now at a crossroad of fear that I'm going do the wrong thing merely coz I don't understand some of the things written in the court order. The Barrister I spent my money on didn't explain the court orders. So I'm lost.
Sammy01 believe you me, I was willing to give him an additional week day and maybe a week each of school holidays, I still am, but he wants 50/50 and a week with him a week with me. My daughter goes to a school a street down from our house, her father lives an hour away, it would break her little heart if she has to leave her school.
Similar threads
