QLD Ex wanting 50/50.. I have concerns.

[allieQLD]

Hi everyone,

Would love some advice please if anyone has a moment.

My husband and I separated 3 years ago when he met someone else. Our 4 children who's ages range from 9-16 have always lived with me and go to his mostly every other weekend.

Their schools are just up the rod from my house and my girls also all do competitive dance and cheerleading and my son plays footie.

My ex has now suddenly said he wants to do week on week off. The issues I'm concerned with are

1: he lives 65km away from us and he is wanting the children to catch trains to and from school too his. There would be 2 trains each way. Now my older children could probably do this begrudgingly but ok but my 9 year old and 12 year old are my worries. My 9year old sons school is about a 40-50 minute walk to the train station. I asked my ex how would my son get to the train station as he's too young to walk all that way alone.
His response was that my 12 and 14 year olds could walk and pick him up. Now their school is near the train station to after school they would either walk or possibly bus it to pick him up and the do the same back to the train station. So thats adding at least an extra hour onto their journey. The train journey to the station where he would pick them up from is then 1hour 15 mins. Then the drive to his house would be another 20-30 mins in peak hour. He then also said that I could pick my son up from the train station in the mornings and drop him to school and do vice versa in the afternoons to help out... which would be hard if I take on more hours at work.

2. He has told the kids that on the weeks that he has them he won't be taking them to their dance and cheerleading activities. My girls have been part of these teams for nearly 7 years and they were so upset today when I picked them up and they told me this. They know that if they are missing from training every other week it will affect their team placements and they would probably be replaced. With my sons footie when the season starts back up I am sure that he would take him as he likes watching his son play.

So when he called me yesterday saying that the children would be trialling this new arrangement he wants to do I voiced my concerns. The children had already said that they didn't want to do it and I am worried about all the travelling involved for the children. It works out to be over 600km a week they would travel by train. He did his usual swearing at me and called me a few different F words and hung up. I told him that he could have them every weekend and as much time in the holidays as he wants as they could then relax and not be as tired and stressed but he does not want that.

I will call legal aid in the morning and see what they advise but could anyone please offer any words of wisdom? The kids really don't want to do it but they are afraid to tell him that when he's right there. They are happy with the arrangement at the moment. I'm so happy to make extra journeys at the weekends and meet him at a suitable time so he can have some extra nights. And the same for holidays. I just don't feel it would be beneficial to the kids at all to be travelling over 600km a week to get there and back and to miss out on their sports that they really look forward too each week.

TIA for any help ) p.s sorry that was long winded!

 

[Time101]

Hi allie.

Maybe try giving it a trial run.
You can really be surprised how kids manage when they are in situations.

Maybe cut down on a few activities with the kids so the father can have 50/50.

Kids learn to adapt when things like this happen.

I do 50/50 with my ex and it works well.

Ring legal aid and get some legal advice.
Good luck.

 

[allieQLD]

Hi allie.

Maybe try giving it a trial run.
You can really be surprised how kids manage when they are in situations.

Maybe cut down on a few activities with the kids so the father can have 50/50.

Kids learn to adapt when things like this happen.

I do 50/50 with my ex and it works well.

Ring legal aid and get some legal advice.
Good luck.

Hi allie.

Maybe try giving it a trial run.
You can really be surprised how kids manage when they are in situations.

Maybe cut down on a few activities with the kids so the father can have 50/50.

Kids learn to adapt when things like this happen.

I do 50/50 with my ex and it works well.

Ring legal aid and get some legal advice.
Good luck.

Hi Time101,

Thanks so much for your reply.

Yes I think 50/50 could be nice.. it's been years since I've had any freedom ha. It is just those 2 issues that worry me. And the fact that the kids are upset at it as well makes it hard.

But you are right kids are adaptable and I could do a trial when school starts up and see how they go.

Yes definitely calling legal aid.. it's just such a shame he doesn't live closer to home it would make the whole thing so much easier

Thanks again

 

[sammy01]

don't give it a trial... IF IN YOUR OPINION it doesn't work and in his it does, WHAT THEN?

I see the travel as a real issue. so problem 1...
Changing sports - problem 2.
co-parenting requires a better relationship between parents than one parent demanding 50/50 then getting abusive when the other parent expresses concern.

Just cheking - you do know that once he gets above 35% care, it changes the dynamics for family tax benefit???

My thought - NOPE - refuse... OR at least compromise.... Offer Thursday once a fortnight, OR Thursday through to Tuesday morning on his weekend. But even then, what happens if you think it isn't working and he thinks it is???

BTW do you have consent orders? a parenting plan?

Don't bother calling legal aid at this point.

 

[allieQLD]

don't give it a trial... IF IN YOUR OPINION it doesn't work and in his it does, WHAT THEN?

I see the travel as a real issue. so problem 1...
Changing sports - problem 2.
co-parenting requires a better relationship between parents than one parent demanding 50/50 then getting abusive when the other parent expresses concern.

Just cheking - you do know that once he gets above 35% care, it changes the dynamics for family tax benefit???

My thought - NOPE - refuse... OR at least compromise.... Offer Thursday once a fortnight, OR Thursday through to Tuesday morning on his weekend. But even then, what happens if you think it isn't working and he thinks it is???

BTW do you have consent orders? a parenting plan?

Don't bother calling legal aid at this point.

Hi Sammy, I was really hoping you would reply and advise thank you!

There are no orders or parenting plan in place at the moment we have always just agreed on him having every other weekend.
I am calling Relationships Australia this morning to book a mediation time to put a parenting plan together. I will reiterate once again I'm happy for them to stay at his each weekend and whenever he would like in the holidays. I like your idea as well of offering an extra night over his weekend. Maybe the Sunday night so they get the full day there and then they aren't missing out on any sport.

I did tell the kids that next year they need to cut down on the sport anyway as it's a lot my me to do on my own. But this year they have another 2 competitions coming up which they need to train for.

Yes I did figure family tax would change.. I work for myself as when he left I was pretty broke and my employment required late nights and weekends so child care was too expensive. Unfortunately though working for myself doesn't generate a huge income so I would need to find employment asap. The family tax has been covering the majority of the rent so obviously that is a concern.

So my main plan today is to arrange the mediation to get the parenting plan in place. I won't agree to anything he asks until we have been there and we can both discuss it.

Thank you again!

 

[Time101]

Hi allie.

Sammy's response - sounds as tho he/she was saying if he has more time with the kids it will reduce ur payments from Centrelink. Yes it will but doesn't mean that he shouldn't have the kids or isn't allowed to do a trial run.

I didn't say that it will work but as I can tell ......looks like both of you have been amicable about the separation and kids arrangements.

I still suggest a trail run and as u said above u are cutting down on their sports next year.

If he goes to court for 50/50 he might get a good chance of getting that percentage given to him.

I presume he pays child support ?

Cheerleading and dance is an expensive sport. Costumes and events all
Cost a fortune.

I have a friend that her daughter does it and it costs lot.

Like I said kids adapt well and I'm sure if u explain to them that things will change and that their dad wants more time. ... They will be fine.
They will need time to adjust.

Relationship Australia will be great.

Good luck. Please keep us posted.

 

[sammy01]

Time101 - yep family tax benefits etc should not be an excuse to stop a parent seeing their kid. But I thought the poster ought to know that it will impact on her payments.

I wish we lived in a nice easy world where you could just give something a trial... BUT once allie agrees to a trial, she is basically conceding that she doesn't have any concerns about how this would play out in reality and if it wen't badly her legal position would be pretty hard to defend.

My main concern is the practical reality of this set up... 65km presumably in city traffic. So by my thinking, that would be a 2 hour commute each way??? This seems impractical... But an extra night or two now seems reasonable. I also reckon that IF the main concern is the commute for the youngest, then an extra night or so now, especially if it is Sunday night, so in reality only one extra long commute, with an understanding that 50/50 could be considered once youngest kid is in high school seems reasonable...

My thinking - what is the point of having 50/50 when the kid is going to be getting home from school at 5.30pm?

I reckon 50/50 should be the preferred option. BUT both parents have to be able to work together... IT would appear that dad feels entitled to get abusive to get his way.... stuff that as a way to co-parent...

As a dad, I've been confronted with such a situation. The ex was going to move 600km away with the kids... It didn't happen. BUT the compromise I tried to make is that I would move too and given the inconvenience it was gonna have on my life I was prepared to agree ONLY if the ex agreed to me having extra time as a result of me relocating to a place that I didn't want to be and that she did....

My thoughts - plan B. Tell dad that the travel is the main concern (and it does seem to be???) hey dad, move closer to the kids primary residence / school / social life and 50/50 becomes achievable...

 

[AllForHer]

If he goes to court for 50/50 he might get a good chance of getting that percentage given to him.

Respectfully, I disagree.

If the Court upholds the presumption of shared parental responsibility (which it almost certainly would, based on the facts provided in this case), then it must consider whether equal time is in the best interests of the children, and whether it is reasonably practicable. Reasonably practicability is determined according to subsection 5 of s 65DAA of the Family Law Act, which takes into account:

• how far apart the parents live from each other;
• the parents' current and future capacity to implement an arrangement for the child spending equal (or substantial and significant time) with each of the parents;
• the parents' current and future capacity to communicate with each other and resolve difficulties that might arise in implementing an arrangement of that kind; and
• the impact that an arrangement of that kind would have on the child; and
• such other matters as the court considers relevant.

In my experience, the distance issue is relative to travel time, rather than physical distance. A distance of 65km in the country is a travel time of around 30 minutes, but in the city, it's more like an hour or more, and the Court has, on more than one occasion, considered a distance of just 30km in the city too far for an equal time arrangement to work, because the travel time to and from school exceeded an hour each way every day.

Add to this the father's outright refusal to ensure the kids can continue their long-running extra-curricular activities, which goes against the grain for 'the impact that an arrangement of that kind would have on the children'. The 12, 14 and 16-year-olds are old enough to likely have their views given some fairly reasonably weight by the Court under s 60CC of the Act, so if they are reluctant to abandon these community connections for 50% of the time - and let's be honest, they're teenagers, so their needs are changing from family-based to community-based - then I think the Court will again struggle with agreeing that equal time is in their best interests.

On top of all of that, the existing arrangements have been in place for three years. There comes a time in every child's life when the Court will usually accept that they are old enough to vote with their feet. If that hasn't happened yet, then the Court is going to be reluctant to make such a significant change to their lives, when what they've been doing has worked so far.

But it would seem to me that going to Court is an unlikely pathway to resolution, in this case. You seem like a reasonable person, OP, so I'm sure you can come to a reasonable agreement hopefully without needing to go to Court.

So, my suggestion is this: when you contact Relationships Australia for mediation, ask if you can do a child-inclusive mediation conference.

A child-inclusive mediation conference is where the children have the opportunity to speak to an objective specialist about what they think are the optimal arrangements for them. The specialist will then relay their views to you and dad, so you and dad can take them into consideration when negotiating a parenting plan. This means the kids won't be burdened with telling you or dad that they do or don't want 50/50, and it is especially useful for older kids, who are more likely to resist if the care arrangements don't suit them. Studies consistently show that people are more likely to comply with agreements if they feel they've been involved in the decision-making process, and the same is said of kids, too.

If it's not an option, then perhaps you could consider a compromise of five nights a fortnight with dad and nine nights a fortnight with you. I don't think every weekend with dad is fair on you or him because it means he gets 100% leisure time, and you get 100% work time, and you both miss out on the benefits (and hard work) of the alternative. On top of that, five nights a fortnight means dad and the kids can trial the school travel arrangements without having to also miss out on their extra-curriculars. If it's working for the kids and their after-school obligations drop back from next year, then perhaps you could consider equal time then.

Hope this helps.

 

[sammy01]

oops one more thing - it is bad for m to include kids in these conversations.... Dad has broken one of the golden rules... Don't involve kids in conversations at the starting point to negotiations...