QLD Suspected of shoplifting, detained, but let go...for now?

[gaga23]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was in David Jones, wandering around bored while waiting for a friend, and I STUPIDLY picked up a large tester bottle of Bvlgari perfume which was almost full, noticed the white not very sticky magnetic thing on it was loose, so I kind of pressed on it and it fell off. Oops. I sort of thought...I wonder if I might be able to somehow have this...

So I walked off, feeling weird, then came back and on the spur of the moment decided to take it. I was still half considering just asking if I could buy it for a discount as it was a tester, but the only staff person I could see was with another customer. Still feeling weird, I went down the escalator with it in my hand (not concealed), as I wanted to look at a Mimco phone case. It was at this point that I noticed a female DJ employee following me down the escalator talking on a phone. I sort of went weird in my mind and couldn't think.

I looked at the Mimco things, still with the bottle visibly in my hand. I felt like I should just put it down but then worried she would know I had considered taking it, and felt even more weird.

Instead, I stupidly went into a change room with a skirt, to kind of gather my thoughts, and decide what to do.

When I emerged, the woman was there with a male security guard. I knew what they were thinking. I gave her both the skirt and the perfume, and in my weird frazzled state, told her I wasn't going to take it but wanted to see if I could buy it at a reduced rate without the box, however I wanted to buy something at Mimco as well so thought I could just buy both at that counter. Then I had decided not to buy anything so...yeah.

The woman was surly and the man grim. They asked me to show them my handbag, which I did. She asked me to literally take every single thing out and open every single little compartment. There was nothing of relevance in there except for 2 silky head scarves that I had planned to put on my bag (it is quite embellished with scarves, stickers & dangly faux fur things). The woman asked where I got them from. I said I think Valleygirl, but I had bought them a few weeks ago so I wasn't 100% sure.

Then she asked to look in my shopping bag I had on my shoulder. In this bag were some clothes that I had bought the day before from the Salvos. The receipt was still there in the bag though the Salvo receipts don't say what each item is. I sell clothes on Ebay so I often go to the Salvos and buy a heap of clothes, some still with tags on, most in excellent as new condition, many good brands ranging from Zimmermann, Hugo Boss and Tommy Hilfiger to Valleygirl, Kmart and Ally.

So ANYWAY, there were some clothes in there that I had bought the day prior, and the woman did not believe me, and said she doubted the Salvos would sell such good quality items. Sigh. I said well...I don't know what to say, but that is where I got them from.

I took every single thing out at her request. A men's Pierre Cardin tie (the security guard inspected this closely), a Queenspark top, a David Lawrence pinstripe shirt, a white mesh Valleygirl cover-up, a Valleygirl denim dress, a Cotton On sundress and a Cotton on denim jacket. All from the Salvos.

The woman inspected each one, then took photos of each one, AND the front of my handbag. She asked for my ID. I gave it to her without argument.

She then said she was calling the police. Ok, I said, somewhat weirded out since I hadn't actually taken anything, and what they seemed convinced I HAD taken was not even from David Jones.

The security guard said they'd been watching me on CCTV and that I had removed the security sticker on the bottle of perfume. I said it sort of fell off when I picked up the bottle (kind of true).

So the woman left to call the police, and then returned, gave me my ID back, asked for my phone number, which I provided and she tested it to see if it was correct by ringing it (it was correct).

She then asked if I would like to surrender the clothes and return to the shop tomorrow to meet with the police, or take the clothes and the police would call me tomorrow.

I said wellll...I'd prefer not to leave the clothes as they are actually mine. So she said fine, put them all back in my shopping bag, and said the police would call me the following day.

The security guard then was asked to escort me out. I asked what would actually happen, and he said the police would call me the following day and if I had any additional proof or anything to add to my story, it'd be wise to do that, and if it were him, he would pay for the clothes. (I was agreeable, thanked him and apologised for wasting his time, but was thinking I don't see how I could pay for the clothes as how would I know how much they were brand new when I got them from the Salvos for $2-$3 each!?)

So...today is the next day, and no one has called me yet. Will they? Surely if they were going to call the police, they would have shown up then and there? Is this normal??

I have never had any involvement with the police or shoplifting before so I don't know how these things work.

Seeing as I did not actually take anything, were they even allowed to detain me like that (about 30 mins), and the woman handled all my clothes at length, taking photos, taking my ID, photographing my handbag.

I'm confused as to why they were so determined to go through every single thing, yet if they'd watched me on CCTV surely they would have seen that I hadn't done anything else?

They also seemed disbelieving that I had removed the Salvos tags ("that's convenient", the woman remarked sarcastically). Why would I leave them on?? The clothes are to be photographed to be listed on Ebay and sold!

The woman kept asking if I had the receipts for the Valleygirl and Cotton On items. No, I said, because I didn't get them from there. Ugh.

Lastly, I tried to explain WHY I had this bag of Salvos clothes I'd bought the day before, but it came out kind of unclear I think, and they didn't seem to listen.

My best friend and I both sell clothes on Ebay from the Salvos, and sometimes we show each other what we've bought, or swap clothes or buy clothes from each other. I was meeting her shortly thereafter.

So...my questions are...

1. Were the police actually called?
2. Will the police call me?
3. Will the police turn up at my door with some kind of search warrant to look through the 14 large tubs of Salvos clothes I have listed for sale?
4. Why were the DJ staff SO rigorous?
5. Were they within their rights to detain me, handle my clothing, and take my ID?
6. Is the fact I left the perfume department and went to another area of the store deemed the same as actually leaving the store entirely?
7. If I must, how can I prove these clothes are mine? The Salvo receipt was right there, but didn't mean much as it only has "red $2" etc, as they're itemised by tag colour / value only.

I have never been in trouble before, am almost 41 years old (I look younger) and am kicking myself for my weird behaviour with that damn perfume! (I am on several medications and had not eaten, so definitely not feeling myself).

I frequent this shopping centre at least twice a week as it's close to where I live, and I am also a mystery / secret shopper and do many of my shopping jobs there in the various stores (including David Jones at times).

Thank you so much for any help and advice anyone can provide!

 

[Adam1user]

Long post, but short answer, yes the police will call you, your case is not at the top priority, but for sure you will be called by police. They acted within their rights, if someone is stealing from me, I would be angry and pissed. They, from their experience, have heard most stories relating to shoplifting, You need to get yourself a lawyer. The lawyer will advise you what to do and what you need and what is the likely outcome of this.

Shoplifting does not pay.....
Nice idea about buying from salvos and sell online.....

 

[gaga23]

Mmm...I see.

I'm just unsure as to why the police were called. I read about other people getting warnings for a first offence, having to sign statements to say they won't enter the store again...so why in this case did they just instantly go straight to interrogation and calling the police, but not asking them to actually attend? And especially when I had not actually stolen anything!

When WILL they call? A week? A month? A YEAR?

 

[gaga23]

Well, it's now been 2 weeks since my incident, and I've heard nothing from the police. I went back to the shopping centre today just as normal, and nothing seemed odd. I was never told I couldn't return there anyway.

Is anything actually going to happen??

 

[Adam1user]

Well, it's now been 2 weeks since my incident, and I've heard nothing from the police. I went back to the shopping centre today just as normal, and nothing seemed odd. I was never told I couldn't return there anyway.

Is anything actually going to happen??

Copy of previous comment:
Long post, but short answer, yes the police will call you, your case is not at the top priority, but for sure you will be called by police. They acted within their rights, if someone is stealing from me, I would be angry and pissed. They, from their experience, have heard most stories relating to shoplifting, You need to get yourself a lawyer. The lawyer will advise you what to do and what you need and what is the likely outcome of this.

Shoplifting does not pay.....
Nice idea about buying from salvos and sell online.....

 

[Scruff]

Then she asked to look in my shopping bag I had on my shoulder. In this bag were some clothes that I had bought the day before from the Salvos. The receipt was still there in the bag though the Salvo receipts don't say what each item is.

I'm afraid this is your biggest problem - it's just not believable.

The first question this raises is "Who buys clothes and still has them in their shopping bag the next day?" Whether it's true or not, people just won't believe it and since the receipt isn't itemized, it's pretty much worthless and actually makes your story even more suspicious.

 

[gaga23]

Thanks for your reply!

I've copied part of my original long post relating to why I had some clothes in my shopping bag.

"Lastly, I tried to explain WHY I had this bag of Salvos clothes I'd bought the day before, but it came out kind of unclear I think, and they didn't seem to listen.

My best friend and I both sell clothes on Ebay from the Salvos, and sometimes we show each other what we've bought, or swap clothes or buy clothes from each other. I was meeting her shortly thereafter."

So yes, believable or not, that is simply the truth.

 

[AnnaPa90]

I understand this was posted some time ago, however, I do want to point out the previous replies are completely and entirely irrelevant to the law, and are not a reflection of legislation within Australia.

Absolutely nothing will happen to you.

Albeit removing security tags does amount to ‘intent to steal’, doing this alone with a loose security sticker is most definitely not going to be grounds for prosecution.

Let me preface the answers by saying that the only ‘offence’ you committed was removing a security sticker from a tester perfume. This isn’t even an offence if they can’t prove you did it on purpose (which they can’t).

I will answer your questions in direct succession:

No. The police were not called, especially after staff searched your person and found nothing. If they were called, there is nothing to prosecute you for; no one has the time nor energy to prosecute someone for removing a loose security sticker on a tester perfume.

No. The police will not contact you. Even if the police were contacted, it’s not worth their time, effort, or energy to (try to) prosecute someone for… taking a sticker off an item. These are very minor offences, and potentially not even an offence in your case, if it was ‘accidental’. Do note that CCTV cameras are far too grainy to notice small and imperceptible movements (such as one discreetly removing a security tag). And therefore it can’t be proven that you intentionally removed this (even if you did). Hypothetically, if they were to take someone to court over this, (which they won’t) one could simply say it fell off - courts do not waste their time with these sorts of issues.

Absolutely not; police cannot and will not even try to, retrieve a search warrant for Salvation Army clothes. In order for this to occur; the items must be, firstly, proven as having been stolen (which DJs has no proof of) and then furthermore, need to be of such a great value (we’re talking tens of thousands of dollars in stolen merchandise) to warrant an arrest warrant.

DJs security staff (and security staff in general) need to find a way to justify their wages by catching or preventing theft when it occurs. Sometimes they’re overzealous and step far beyond boundaries they can (such as in your case).

The staff were NOT within their rights to detain you; you had no stolen merchandise on you as you’d hadn’t left the store. Security can only detain you if they are sure you have stolen an item. They were, however, in their rights to copy/picture your ID and look through your items (if you gave them permission to do so). Do note that security staff cannot touch your personal items, however, they can direct you to move items around so they can better see inside your purse.

No. It is not illegal to remove an item from one section of the store to another. This is why security always wait for an individual to leave the store before detaining them; they are vulnerable to lawsuits if they aim to detain people BEFORE an offence is committed. Sure, they may have thought you were intending to steal the item as you removed a tester bottle from the perfume section, however, this is not proof of theft, nor prove of intent to steal.

You do not have to prove the clothing items were yours. It is not illegal, nor do you need to explain or justify why you were carrying around a previous purchase in your handbag - that is not anyone else’s business.

Remember, the onus is not on you to prove that you didn’t steal something, or to prove that something belongs to you; it would be DJs responsibility to prove that you DID steal the clothing. Obviously they don’t have proof of this (as you did not take these items from the shelves of David Jones) and therefore sought to use some cheap theatrics and borderline-illegal actions to try to catch you in the act of concealing something else the camera may not have seen you conceal (at least this is what I believe has happened here).

It’s always good to look up consumer laws, detainment laws and powers of shop staff and security guards; these people need to be kept in line as they have both a responsibility to the store they work for, but are also limited to the same laws and rules that apply to ALL regular citizens - remember, they are not law enforcement.

So if I were you, yes, I’d get a lawyer. But not for me; I’d be suing DJs.

 

[gaga23]

THANK YOU!!! What you said is exactly what I thought after pondering some more subsequent to the event. Obviously now it's been over 4 years since it occurred, I've been in David Jones many times with no issue and never contacted by the police.

I have wondered if I could potentially sue DJs for detaining me unlawfully. I did not steal anything and didn't even head towards the exit at any time apart from when the security guard escorted me out.

The main female security guard was very condescending and arrogant. She and another female store worker who she asked to assist her, held up each and every item of MY clothes that were NOT stolen from there or anywhere else, and took photos of them individually. The male security guard was not rude, but he too touched and peered closely at some items (namely the Pierre Cardin neck tie), presumably trying to work out if DJs sold those items. The tie was vintage Pierre Cardin so...no.

So they touched all my clothes, asked me to leave my clothes there (no thanks. Why would I?), told me they had called the police and that they would be contacting me the following day, and detained me in a partially private area by the change rooms for at least 30 minutes.

In addition, I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and had been prescribed Ritalin which did not agree with me. I had not eaten all day, and was not even intending to go into DJs. My friend, with whom I was meeting for a late lunch, was held up as she had to pick up her young son early from school. I was feeling very strange and a bit lightheaded, and as I sat, detained and interrogated, it all seemed quite surreal. I wasn't overly concerned as I hadn't taken anything, and I wasn't intimidated by the arrogant security woman, but I was a bit shaken as nothing like that had ever happened to me before.

Again, thank you so much for your post!

Is there a statute of limitations for legal action on this?

 

[AnnaPa90]

THANK YOU!!! What you said is exactly what I thought after pondering some more subsequent to the event. Obviously now it's been over 4 years since it occurred, I've been in David Jones many times with no issue and never contacted by the police.

I have wondered if I could potentially sue DJs for detaining me unlawfully. I did not steal anything and didn't even head towards the exit at any time apart from when the security guard escorted me out.

The main female security guard was very condescending and arrogant. She and another female store worker who she asked to assist her, held up each and every item of MY clothes that were NOT stolen from there or anywhere else, and took photos of them individually. The male security guard was not rude, but he too touched and peered closely at some items (namely the Pierre Cardin neck tie), presumably trying to work out if DJs sold those items. The tie was vintage Pierre Cardin so...no.

So they touched all my clothes, asked me to leave my clothes there (no thanks. Why would I?), told me they had called the police and that they would be contacting me the following day, and detained me in a partially private area by the change rooms for at least 30 minutes.

In addition, I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and had been prescribed Ritalin which did not agree with me. I had not eaten all day, and was not even intending to go into DJs. My friend, with whom I was meeting for a late lunch, was held up as she had to pick up her young son early from school. I was feeling very strange and a bit lightheaded, and as I sat, detained and interrogated, it all seemed quite surreal. I wasn't overly concerned as I hadn't taken anything, and I wasn't intimidated by the arrogant security woman, but I was a bit shaken as nothing like that had ever happened to me before.

Again, thank you so much for your post!

Is there a statute of limitations for legal action on this?

Hey,

I’m so glad you saw my post!

You most certainly could sue them, however, do know that this would be brought forward as a tort - it is also potentially a bit of work; there will be difficulty finding these people and going through the grunt work of CCTV finding etc., but it is definitely possible.

If it were me, I’d call them up tomorrow and tell them about what happened a few years back. Write the story up first and call head office and ask to speak to a customer service agent. Usually they’re able to give disgruntled customers small gift cards for unpleasant experiences. I was falsely accused recently of stealing something from Coles and they were quick to send me a $20 voucher in the mail when I contacted them.

It’s a nice way to get a little something as parlance for their ineptitude without having to go through a whole court trial.

They’ll try to dismiss it and give you just an apology, but if you tell them an apology is insufficient as their staff broke the law, they’ll probably cough up something better!

They should definitely not have to touch your personal items without your express consent, but you may have given it to them whilst you were shaken up (because even as an innocent person, these things are frazzling). Private security such as the ones at DJs also try to take advantage of customers being frazzled and shaken, because they know the customers (whilst in this state) will often agree to anything just to not have them call the police (which they know they can’t do).

If this ever happens again, and you haven’t broken any laws, say to them, ‘Okay, call the police! And when they get here, see I’ve stolen nothing, and see that you have no proof of me stealing anything, they’ll be here so I can file a suit for false imprisonment’. They’ll probably just look frazzled and let you walk off, or if they do believe you’ve stolen something, they’ll probably call them, one or two officers will come in, tell them you haven’t stolen and watch as the police officers had to DJs staff members waste 20 minutes of their time! 😄

Anyways, I’m glad you saw this; I was so angry for you when I read your post, I just thought I’d reply (even if someone else would read it and feel better).

Happy Holidays!

Anna.