VIC Scammed by Overseas Freelancer on Upwork - What to Do?

[lessie]

Hello, I'm not sure where this belongs to, but I really need some help.

I've been scammed by a "freelancer" I found on Upwork. He tricked me into paying him in advance and then never delivering the work. He claimed he has done other work for me so he would be keeping my money, but then he wouldn't show proof of this other work, too.

It's not a very large amount but large enough for me that it is troubling. I am unemployed and I'm trying to get my business running, and I need the money to hire someone else to do the job.

This person is from England and I found his phone number and address on the business register there.

If anyone can give me some help on how to go with this I'd really appreciate it.

 

[kimsland]

Well that's easily answered, England is above Australia. Our courts do not have rights to their taxes or money without their permission - which you won't get.

Regarding service not being provided for the contracted job. "He claimed he has done other work for me" That may be reasonable, I'd say a very difficult case, in most of these types of cases people generally go to the media, all of a sudden you'll get your money back. Through the courts?

Yeah, maybe when you get your Order in favour of you (he owes you) then he'll go back to England, and that's the end of the courts (civil) jurisdiction

 

[lessie]

Thanks for replying! Ok I see... I found his Facebook page, would it work if I messaged his friends on there? I do have evidence of his sneaky ways in Skype logs. Or what type of media are you referring to?

And really, can he do work that I didn't agree to pay for and then not do what I asked him for? Is that actually acceptable?

 

[kimsland]

can he do work that I didn't agree to pay for and then not do what I asked him for? Is that actually acceptable?

Did you have a contract in writing? His sneaky ways in Skype don't actually void a contract of service he provided.

Yes I'd try Facebook and everywhere. But there are also laws against people harassing others, so don't go too far. I'd probably make myself heard a bit, and even write his name up all over the place, he should have some 'reviews' area you could reply to as well.

Contacting all his friends may backfire a bit, as they are his 'friends'

To me it seems you have learned a lesson at a cost. Only go with reputable people with business page and reviews, that type of thing. You couldn't threaten him with legal action, that's not actually against the law ironically

 

[lessie]

I do have a contract on Upwork that says what he is supposed to do, but he didn't do it. He didn't even show proof that he did the work he claimed he did.

So it sounds like to me if someone paid me for a website design I can give them a box of apples instead... it sounds a bit ridiculous! But well I don't know that much about the law...

I might find some sites to leave some reviews about him then

 

[Iamthelaw]

Well that's easily answered, England is above Australia.

England above Australia? What are you talking about?

Our courts do not have rights to their taxes or money without their permission - which you won't get.

Sorry but this is incorrect. Order 7 Rule 1 Sub Rule 1 A-M sets out instances whereby a defendant is outside Australia - The takeaway from the provision is that there has to be a 'nexus' between the Plaintiff's cause of action and the State of Victoria. Specifically, (J) sets out that the Plaintiff can issue proceedings if the damages were suffered in Victoria, despite the actual 'wrong' occurring overseas.

Yeah, maybe when you get your Order in favour of you (he owes you) then he'll go back to England, and that's the end of the courts (civil) jurisdiction

Again - This just isn't accurate, at all. Cross-Jurisdictional litigation, in addition to enforcement occurs all the time - I have no idea where you get your information from.

To the Original Poster -

From a practical point of view: Pursuing court action may not be feasible and/or cost effective (I imagine the amount in question would be under $10k). I don't know enough about Upwork, where they are based and their respective terms etc but I note that they seem to offer some form of conciliation service. Perhaps you should make contact with Upwork and lodge a dispute.

My understanding is that these 'freelancer' sites require evidence of work in the 'work room'. Lastly, learn from this and never release funds the full amount of funds prior to receiving the completed product.

 

[kimsland]

England above Australia? What are you talking about?

Sorry but this is incorrect. Order 7 Rule 1 Sub Rule 1 A-M sets out instances whereby a defendant is outside Australia - The takeaway from the provision is that there has to be a 'nexus' between the Plaintiff's cause of action and the State of Victoria. Specifically, (J) sets out that the Plaintiff can issue proceedings if the damages were suffered in Victoria, despite the actual 'wrong' occurring overseas.

Again - This just isn't accurate, at all. Cross-Jurisdictional litigation, in addition to enforcement occurs all the time - I have no idea where you get your information from.
.

Thanks for your questions.

When I was going through my Federal legal case regarding receiving taxable income records from England, I was clearly informed that the taxation department in England (whatever they're called there) did not have to provide this information to me (or the courts) as it was under their discretion. But if the person was in AU then this information is provided (even through order) without issue.

I asked the court why this financial information was not provided by England, and was met with: England is above us in hierarchy and not the same regarding tax. So that was interesting, and guess what, no amount of court orders ever received the taxable income from this individual. Hey but thanks for your question I don't get to bring it up to others much, just my personal experience I suppose (through the court!).

I think solicitors see all the laws and understand all the processes involved, but they do not understand the reality and experience of people such as the original OP here, who will likely not win even with the law on his side. Plus I sensed he understands this too. Explaining that to a solicitor is nearly impossible.

I did hear (at the time) the laws were going to change in the future, but I got the picture..

 

[lessie]

Thanks for the responses. I have tried asking Upwork to help resolve the issue but they don't want to take any responsibility. I'm not even sure if they investigated him because he seems still active on the site. They weren't very unhelpful and wouldn't even respond to my questions.

Is exposing the scammer to scare him the only thing I can do? I got his Facebook photos and contact details, would I get into trouble if I posted them? One of my friends just sent a pretty serious email to him today and I wonder if he'll take any notice.

Also, is it really ok by law to not deliver what I asked, and not deliver what he said he's done as well?

 

[kimsland]

Also, is it really ok by law to not deliver what I asked, and not deliver what he said he's done as well?

Remember he did deliver. You even said apples for webpage or whatever it was. He delivered.
Now lawyers will get heavily involved in Symantecs and what is service for payment etc etc etc. But its not going to get you anywhere (personal viewpoint here, ie Like everyone).

Your other reply about how bad should I be in destroying their public profile. I actually now think you should just stop. To me this seems to have become a fight until the end for you now, and if he's not hurt it hasn't ended. Stop now, before you get into worse trouble than his service shows to you ie People will then want to get you back! Viscous circle.

Unless a lawyer wants to grab onto your frustrated anger at this guy, I'm done with it, and so should you be.

What's going to happen when a bully hits your boy at school one day? Massive lawsuit? You are going to bash the other parents? Or just help your son learn from it and move on (learning may mean learning to defend himself with better knowledge physical and mental).

Just leave it alone.

 

[lessie]

Remember he DID deliver. You even said apples for webpage or whatever it was. He delivered.

I'm just very curious. At least in PayPal, I can get a refund if they didn't deliver an item as described. So how does it work in a contract that he can do something completely different, not deliver anything to me, and that's still ok? This part makes no sense to me...

And I don't know what will happen. my friend seems quite angry as he read the conversations and wants to expose him. I actually want more to know what he has actually done or not done, since it's affecting my future opportunities...