VIC Property Law - Removing Name from Title?

[Alert]

I am asking this on behalf of my brother. Is he able to remove his ex from the house title?

The ex left him, was having another relationship at the time. She walked out on all the children. They have now been separated for 3yrs, never married. He is a hard, hard worker and pays for everything. Does not receive anything from the ex, I mean anything. He helps her financially at times.

His ex will sometimes suggest to him about selling the house. She flip-flops and says I won’t take anything when the house is sold, and she sometimes says she will. He wants to sell, but the only reason he is not selling is that she doesn’t deserve any of the money when he does sell and also if she does want half it will be harder for him to provide for the children. He pays private school fees, medical fees, you name it, he pays it.

He has raised 3 children which are the mother’s, he doesn’t regret this at all. 2 are now out and 1 continues living with his ‘dad’, my brother. He is now raising 2 children which are biologically his and hers.

The house is mortgaged. He has spoken with the bank in regards to her name being off of the title. They are fine with this. The only issue is, how does he remove her name from the title?

I would appreciate any property law help.

 

[sammy01]

He needs to get a legally binding document, they are called - consent orders. For asset division both parties need independent legal advice. That means solicitors. Different ones, he and she can't go see the same one... He really needs to get onto this.

So let me read his future.... he spends the next 20 yrs paying the thing off. She is still on the title. When he sells, she technically is entitled to half even though she never contributed a cent. Don't let that happen. He won't be able to get his hands on the proceeds from the sale without her signature and if she doesn't want to give it he is screwed.

He has some other issues that need dealing with though. Firstly, there is a 2-year timeframe to make a claim in family court and this is not a property issue, it is a family law issue. So that is a problem.
Next, the consent orders I mentioned, they require both parties to get independent legal advice. This is gonna suck. She doesn't want to pay money to a solicitor just to not get money. So he is gonna have to suck it up and pay her some go away money unless she ignores the legal advice that she receives. The legal advice she receives will be that she is entitled to some of the proceeds from the relationship.

The only way to do that is to either sell the house or get a legally binding document. Do not - repeat do not let this go. I can not emphasise that enough. The problem with selling the house without an agreement is that the money will remain in trust until there is an agreement and she can hold him to black mail - after all she has nothing to lose. True.

Tell him to make an appointment to see a solicitor asap. He is gonna have to throw $5k-$10k at this. He is probably gonna have to offer to pay her legal bills and he is gonna want to hope she complies. If she doesn't he could lose a huge chunk of his assets. So right now the bank owns most of the house. There isn't that much to argue over - but in 20 yrs he will have paid it all of and then wind up having to give her even more.

The problem isn't removing her from the mortgage - it is removing it from the title. BTW he is gonna have to pay half stamp duty on the thing. So the longer this goes on the more stamp duty will go up, the more the house will be worth and the more he will get screwed over.

BTW - this post is probably more appropriate for the family law forum. Sure it is about the property, but it is property accumulated during a relationship.

Last thing - how long did he live with her?

Get onto a solicitor asap.

Once you've done that go back to the other page and write me the apology I deserve.

 

[Alert]

Thankyou Sammy01, I appreciate your help, truly I do.

I will take your opinion for my brother to read as you did stress how important he gets onto this, like ASAP.

I’ll let you know how this all turns out for him and my nieces. That was very clever leaving the apology to the very end.

I never meant to hurt your feelings, I’m not that type of person, I do apologise if I hurt your feelings, Sammy01 that is all I can do, as we cannot agree with each other regarding our differences, when I say this I’m referring about reaching out to you, I’m not bringing this to surface, the only reason for me to speak of this is because this is what I’m referring to about our differences.

Will you accept this? Even though we were acting in ways that is so childish, I never disliked you.
I know you deserve an apology from me as I do admit I would have been p1ssed with me also from the beginning.

Thanks again Sammy01 for your advice, believe me when I say this, I do appreciate your advice, I truly do.

Cheers Sammy01

 

[Alert]

He needs to get a legally binding document, they are called - consent orders. For asset division both parties need independent legal advice. That means solicitors. Different ones, he and she can't go see the same one... He really needs to get onto this.

So let me read his future.... he spends the next 20 yrs paying the thing off. She is still on the title. When he sells she technically is entitled to half even though she never contributed a cent. DONT LET THAT HAPPEN. He wont be able to get his hands on the proceeds from the sale without her signature and if she doesn't want to give it he is screwed.

He has some other issues that need dealing with though. Firstly, there is a 2 year timeframe to make a claim in family court and this is not a property issue, it is a family law issue. So that is a problem.
Next the consent orders I mentioned, they require both parties to get independent legal advice. This is gonna suck. She doesn't want to pay money to a solicitor just to NOT get money. So he is gonna have to suck it up and pay her some go away money, unless she ignores the legal advice that she receives. The legal advice she receives will be that she is entitled to some of the proceeds from the relationship.

The only way to do that is to either sell the house or get a legally binding document. DO not - repeat do not let this go. I can not emphasise that enough. The problem with selling the house without an agreement is that the money will remain in trust until there is an agreement and she can hold him to black mail - after all she has nothing to lose. True.

Tell him to make an appointment to see a solicitor asap. He is gonna have to throw $5k-$10k at this. He is probably gonna have to offer to pay her legal bills and he is gonna want to hope she complies. If she doesn't he could lose a huge chunk of his assets. So right now the bank owns most of the house. There isn't that much to argue over - but in 20 yrs he will have paid it all of and then wind up having to give her even more.

The problem isn't removing her from the mortgage - it is removing it from the title. BTW he is gonna have to pay half stamp duty on the thing. So the longer this goes on the more stamp duty will go up, the more the house will be worth and the more he will get screwed over.
BTW - this post is probably more appropriate for the family law forum. Sure it is about property, but it is property accumulated during a relationship.

Last thing - how long did he live with her?
Get onto a solicitor asap.

Once you've done that go back to the other page and write me the apology I deserve.

Good morning Sammy01,

I have spoken with my brother regarding your opinion, he is appreciative for this.

He has paid her $40,000 as this is what she asked, this is on top of other amounts he has given her to pay her debts since they have been separated, thousands of dollars at a time, always in debt.
Would this come in to account?

I forgot to mention, about 10 to 12 months ago, she spoke to my brother about the house and $40,000, he agreed with her.

So this is what happened after he agreed, she visited him with a Statutory Declaration form explaining, she has received $40,000 to pay her out.
Don’t quote me word for word, something along the lines, though.
Would this come into account?

I have kept the stat dec for him as when she would rarely visit the kids when she does she would go through his paperwork.

They were together for 20yrs.
When they met he owned his own house, no mortgage, all his.
Would this come into account?

During that time my brother has always worked, she would stay at home and look after the kids, and handle the money, he gave total trust.

Anyway, I feel this is where it all went wrong, he sold his house, then her name was on all house titles, 3 to be exact.

My brother does not want to spend thousands on a solicitor, ‘he says he never has the time and again he doesn’t want to spend the money’.

He is full on busy from morning till night, he runs and works his own business, does the shopping, cooking, laundry, housework, takes care of the kids, etc etc etc.

The relationship between him and “it” are friends only, ‘this is what she believes’.
My brother is keeping sweet with her, as he doesn’t want her turning nasty and go down the path where she will go for it.

What are your thoughts and also what advice would you suggest for him?

What I’m about to say now has nothing to do with the above. I noticed the thread was locked. I tried to message ‘lawanswers’ the moderator, I was not successful in doing so. My apologies to all who was in the thread.

I would appreciate your opinion about the situation my brother is in.

Cheers Sammy01

 

[sammy01]

Ok, so the stat dec is almost toilet paper. They are not legally binding. Might be handy if she argues... But if she argues, he is gonna spend double that fighting this stuff in court and that stat dec really isn't worth much. He has all this $$ to lose and she has all this $ to gain.

So story time. True story. The bloke I helped - he paid the ex's gambling debts. Bad debts, too bad people. She signed a stat dec saying she'll never apply for child support because she understands the $$$ he paid to clear those gambling debts. 2 weeks after those gambling debts were paid by him, she applied for child support. That stat dec meant NOTHING. He now pays child support.

So back to your brother. The fact that he transferred the $ to her is ok. I'm hoping it wasnt as cash? So there are receipts? Bank transfers? But even that could be challenged...

So let me tell you how this is gonna play out.

Option 1 - He sells the property(s) that have her name on the title and she doesn't argue. SWEET... But This is an insane gamble, not with the sort of $$ we're talking. He is gambling losing half of his hard earned...

Option 2 - He sells the property(s) with her name on the title and she refuses to sign the necessary paperwork and insists that she wants her share. Nor sweet. He can take that stat dec to court and ask a judge to make a decision. The costs involved in that are big.

Option 3 - see a solicitor - drop $5-10K to get it done now. This is my preferred option. Unless you guys fully trust this woman, like I trust my mum? yep didn't think so...

So I understand the misguided logic of "My brother is keeping sweet with her, as he doesn’t want her turning nasty and go down the path where she will go for it". BUT - when he finally wants to sell the house(s) and he has been really nice keeping things sweet... BUT the law doesn't have a sub-clause about keeping things sweet. So no matter how many bags of sugar he gives her to keep things sweet it ain't gonna cut it in law.

So, I attacked you on the other post because you mentioned the morals of accepting without admission. Let's let that go. All good, but I'm hoping you can see the comparison here. What is his ex gonna do when she has two choices.

1- Do what I believe is right. Sign the paperwork so your brother can get his money. Or
2 - Refuse to sign the paperwork and insist half is her's.
You know this person better than me. I've never met her, but I'm betting on number 2? Which way would you bet?

There is a slightly better option, which is called a binding financial agreement. Again, solicitors required. But if she agrees it could reduce costs, but I really can't advise on this without reading all the documents relating to the case. It is something he should ask a solicitor about.

So go see a solicitor. Let me give you a comparison. I get a flat tyre in my car. I change it... I need a new motor, I get a mechanic to do the job. Your brother is not changing a tyre, he is doing a full grease and oil change.

Now Alert, about that thread that was locked... You caused it. Frankly, I could have reported some of your posts and you would have been banned from posting here at all. But the guy that made that thread isn't getting help now. True. Mate. stay here, you're welcome, and obviously, you've been through some tough times...

I know you've made some really bad mistakes on the way. $80K and 4 years? Pity you didn't find this site earlier because $80K and 4 yrs is a bad result in family law even if you did get a good result for assets and kids. So stay here, it is a good place, but it is not a place where offensive language is ok...

Peace

 

[Alert]

Ok so the stat dec is almost toilet paper. They are not legally binding. Might be handy if she argues... But if she argues, he is gonna spend double that fighting this stuff in court and that stat dec really isn't worth much. He has all this $$ to lose and she has all this $ to gain.

So story time. True story. Bloke I helped - he paid the ex's gambling debts. Bad debts, to bad people. She signed a stat dec saying she'll never apply for child support because she understands the $$$ he paid to clear those gambling debts. 2 weeks after those gambling debts were paid by him, she applied for child support. That stat dec meant NOTHING. He now pays child support.

So back to your brother. The fact that he trasferred the $ to her is ok. I'm hoping it wasnt as cash? So there are reciepts? bank transfers? But even that could be challenged.....
So let me tell you how this is gonna play out.
Option 1 - He sells the property(s) that have her name on the title and she doesn't argue. SWEET... BUT This is an insane gamble, not with the sort of $$ we're talking. He is gambling losing half of his hard earned...
Option 2 - He sells the property(s) with her name on the title and she refuses to sign the necessary paperwork and insists that she wants her share. NOT SWEET. He can take that stat dec to court and ask a judge to make a decision. The cost involved in that are big.

Option 3 - see a solicitor - drop $5-10K to get it done now. This is my preferred option. Unless you guys fully trust this woman, like I trust my mum? yep didn't think so...

So I understand the mis-guided logic of "My brother is keeping sweet with her, as he doesn’t want her turning nasty and go down the path where she will go for it". BUT - when he finally wants to sell the house(s) and he has been really nice keeping things sweet.... BUT the law doesn't have a sub-clause about keeping things sweet. So no mater how many bags of sugar he gives her to keep things sweet it ain't gonna cut it in law.

So, i attacked you on the other post because you mentioned the morals of accepting without admission. Let's let that go. All good, but I'm hoping you can see the comparision here.What is his ex gonna do when she has two choices.
1- do what I believe is right. Sign the paperwork so your brother can get his money. OR
2 - Refuse to sign the paperwork and insist half is her's.
You know this person better than me. Ive never met her, but I'm betting on number 2? which way would you bet?

There is a slightly better option, which is called a binding financial agreement. Again, solicitors required. But if she agrees it could reduce costs, but I really can't advise on this without reading all the documents relating to the case. It is something he should ask a solicitor about.

So go see a solicitor. Let me give you a comparision. I get a flat tyre in my car. I change it.... I need a new motor, I get a mechanic to do the job. Your brother is not changing a tyre, he is doing a full grease and oil change.

Now ALERT about that thread that was locked.... You caused it. Frankly, I could have reported some of your posts and you would have been banned from posting here at all. But the guy that made that thread isn't getting advice now. True. Mate stay here, you're welcome, and obviously you've been through some tough times.... I know you've made some really bad mistakes on the way. $80K and 4 years? pity you didn't find this site earlier because $80K and 4 yrs is a bad result in family law even if you did get a good result for assets and kids. So stay here, it is a good place, but it is not a place where offensive language is ok...
peace

Peace from me all the way, thanks Sammy01 you are so kind.

Oh, who was speaking so rudely?

So irrelevant, I believe this person has built a bridge.

I have read what you have suggested regarding my brother and as you said, about knowing her, unfortunately, I do know “it”. I also know “it” to be extremely cunning and greedy.

I will definitely have a conversation with my brother about the options you have given.

I truly do appreciate you sharing your ‘knowledge’, you are one clever dude.
I felt like crap when you did mention the $80k, can you believe there was no property settlement included with the $80k, no jokes. He screwed me over, wasn’t paying bank loan, didn’t pay any child support, truly not a cent and on top of this, he was withdrawing money without my knowledge.

All I can say is, mmmm, not a lot really.

The boys are good kids, they stay out of trouble and polite boys, totally got that from me????

Thanks, Sammy01. I’ll keep you informed as to how this goes down with my brother.

Cheers matey.

 

[sammy01]

So here is a link to a good source.
If you agree about property and finance - Family Court of Australia

Get hit to a solicitor - ask about a binding financial agreement. I doubt that would work. They are the Aussie equivalent to a prenup.

Hey, we all get screwed over in family law... My ex walked away with most of the assets. The main reason was she was gonna be the primary carer of three young kids and I have a better-earning capacity. So she had the greater need... Move forward 2 yrs and she dumps the kids on me and runs... And has managed to avoid child support.

I guess it just goes to show that there really isn't sexism in family law - both genders can get away with some pretty poor form...

But seriously, your brother needs to get the ex's name off the titles. So because more than 2 yrs has lapsed since separation he really is gonna need some good advice. I really don't know what happens after the two years lapse. So I really can only make assumptions - not gonna pretend to give advice when I'm not confident I know what I'm talking about. But the fact remains with her names on the titles he can't sell them and he definitely can't get a transfer of funds from the sale without her approval and agreement about which bank account the $$$ is to go into.

Sure she might play nice when it comes time to sell, but I would not be able to sleep at nights worrying about all the what if's if she doesn't.

 

[Alert]

So here is a link to a good source.
If you agree about property and finance - Family Court of Australia

Get hit to a solicitor - ask about a binding financial agreement. I doubt that would work. They are the Aussie equivalent to a prenup.

Hey, we all get screwed over in family law... My ex walked away with most of the assets. The main reason was she was gonna be the primary carer of three young kids and I have a better-earning capacity. So she had the greater need... Move forward 2 yrs and she dumps the kids on me and runs... And has managed to avoid child support.

I guess it just goes to show that there really isn't sexism in family law - both genders can get away with some pretty poor form...

But seriously, your brother needs to get the ex's name off the titles. So because more than 2 yrs has lapsed since separation he really is gonna need some good advice. I really don't know what happens after the two years lapse. So I really can only make assumptions - not gonna pretend to give advice when I'm not confident I know what I'm talking about. But the fact remains with her names on the titles he can't sell them and he definitely can't get a transfer of funds from the sale without her approval and agreement about which bank account the $$$ is to go into.

Sure she might play nice when it comes time to sell, but I would not be able to sleep at nights worrying about all the what if's if she doesn't.

Gidday Sammy01, sorry to hear of the position your x put through. I believe you and the kids are better without her.
Of course I don’t her, I believe your kids are better off though, if your x just dumps them on you and takes off, who knows what was going on in her head.
I can’t imagine doing such a thing, I truly can’t imagine. My boys are older now than when I was in family court, their teens now.
I am forever concerned when they go out, their mates are all good kids. One of the boys is a machine, he is forever on the move, he has so much drive, when he says something he is going to do, he never goes back on his word. One of my boys is into environmental science, events management and global politics. The one that is on the move is into everything, he is learning audio tech, has been for almost 2yrs now, and his good, his school employed him on a casual basis at the moment, he receives $37 per hour. When he is 18yrs old they want him to work with other schools. He has his path planned out, so who knows.

Anyway enough of that, I will be seeing my brother this weekend, we plan to have a discussion. I spoke to him via phone and he is so confused, so I want to see him, sit down, weigh up the positive and negative, then put all this on paper as he talks about what his thought are, that way it’s in front of his face and can read, ‘if I do this? if I do that? then he may not feel overwhelmed.

I will let you know how this pans out, fingers crossed she will keep out of his life.

Take care Sammy01, I’ll let you know what decision he comes to.

Cheers me matey