QLD Private car seller, requesting refund due to withholding/misleading important information

[bbk1n]

Hello,

On June 16th 2018, Saturday afternoon, I saw a cheap 2017 Toyota Corolla online via carsales.com for $15,800. I called up the owner to make an appointment to inspect the car for 5:00pm. I was running late and did not arrive until 5:45pm.

Upon inspecting the car, I could not see anything wrong with it, it was running mechanically good but it was dark so visibility was a bit poor and I did not see anything wrong with the body. I asked the reason why he is selling the car cheap and advised me that they are in a family crisis and needed the money for a quick sale. I asked the owners about car service history and he advised me that it is a brand new car, bought for $22,000 and only done 9,000ks so there is no service history (red flag 1), as I took his word for it, I didnt think about asking if the car had been damaged as it looked fairly immaculate.
So I offered to buy the car and I put down a deposit via EFT transfer. I took photos of the car registration papers and the safety certificate, checked online if the car is registered using the VIN number and as it was clear, so I proceeded to transfer the deposit in the partners joint bank account not the actual owner of the vehicle. We then verbally agreed to have the rest of the payment made on Monday June 18th via cash (owner preferred). Upon arriving home, my partner pointed out a few things that were amiss on the registration papers and the safety certificate;

• The registration number plates on the paper was not the same as the one on the car but when I did an online check the registration plates for the car is correct, the receipt date for the papers was 11/05/18, which expires on the 10/11/18.
• So I thought they must have changed the plates but my partner thought it was suspicious (red flag 2).
• The safety certificate does not show the registration number for the car, it has been left blank but everything else was fine, e.g VIN number and engine number. However the date for the safety certificate was made the same day the registration was paid (red flag 3)

After searching online for advice and information, I got myself a PPSR check for the vehicle, their was nothing owing on the car, nor had it been reported stolen, however there was a notice advising that the car was a repairable write-off on February 22 2018. Then it was inspected on the 01 May 2018 (red flag 4).

I then tried contacting the owners but
they did not get back to me that night.
I can only guess from the Information, that it was bought from an auction and repaired then the owners are reselling the car, however I was advised it was a brand new car.

Next morning Sunday June 17 2018, I called the owner and asked about damages and the owner had to get back to me regarding that info. After a few minutes, owner told me that there was damage at the front bumper only, however on the report states there was also damage to the roof and suspension.
I asked if I could inspect the car again and arranged a meeting at 2:00pm, where the sun would be out and I could inspect it more clear.
Upon arrival, straight away, my partner and I noticed the roof of the car being damaged and not professionally fixed, the inside roof ceiling had cracks and damages to it and there were no seals for the windscreen, I could not see anything wrong with the engine or the suspension due to lack of knowledge. I could tell there were no seals because I hired the same model Corolla and used that as a reference.
After some talks with my partner, we decided to re-negotiate the price and as they did not budge, advising me that he bought the car for $22,000, that the car is brand new and did not even take into consideration the report I showed him. I retracted my offer to buy the car and requested a refund but also willing to pay for fees up to $500.00 to cover the cost of advertisement and potential buyers.
The seller refused and even said he will make more money now as people are lining up to buy the car and the deposit I made to him, will be way over his selling price.
I did send a formal letter and text requesting a refund Sunday night but no answer from them.

Had I known about the damages, my decision may have been different.
I do know that there are some parts that is my fault for not doing any due diligence before making a decision, however was lead to believe that it was their brand new car.
I know that it may be a low chance to do anything about it but would like any advice regarding this matter.

Please help.

 

[Clancy]

Ok.... um i did not understand this line; "The seller refused and even said he will make more money now as people are lining up to buy the car and the deposit I made to him, will be way over his selling price."?

The car is probably from NSW, Because repairable write off's are banned from being registered in NSW, so they have to sell all these cars to other state. But it still has to pass stringent repairable write off inspection, so i dont see how it can be registered with a damaged roof?

Is the car actually registered at the moment or you bought it as unregistered? Anyway, if the number plates are wrong, the first thing you should do is hand in those plates at the traffic authority and see if you can order new correct ones. If there is anything untoward going on you will probably find out while doing this and then refer the case to police, but that probably wont get you your money back.

 

[bbk1n]

Ok.... um i did not understand this line; "The seller refused and even said he will make more money now as people are lining up to buy the car and the deposit I made to him, will be way over his selling price."?

As in, the seller refused to refund my deposit because it was a deposit for the car I was about to buy. Telling me, my best option is to buy the car then advising me to sell it afterwards because he was not going to refund me and he would sell the car to another buyer.
So including the money from a new buyer he would make the $15,800 for the car and my deposit of $2,000, totalling to $17,800.

. But it still has to pass stringent repairable write off inspection, so i dont see how it can be registered with a damaged roof?

The roof had been fixed but not to a professional standard, you could see the edge lining of the roof, some parts were crooked and just not finished properly. The seal was the other thing, judging by what I saw, it was probably just glued on without the seals.

Is the car actually registered at the moment or you bought it as unregistered?

The car is actually registered at the moment and the plates match the car plates through the transport and main road website,however on the registration receipt paper the car rego was different.
So they either must have changed the plates or got new plates because it was a car without any plates. Did that make sense?

 

[DMLegal]

What is your question, are you looking for advice on the next steps to obtain a refund of the deposit?

 

[bbk1n]

What is your question, are you looking for advice on the next steps to obtain a refund of the deposit?

Yes, pretty much. I would like to know the chances of getting it back and if its worth taking it to civil court. It's really the principal that I want over the money. I offered him $500.00 for his wasted time and I think I was very reasonable but he balantly refused and even said I will be the one at a loss cause it's a new car.
I have called around some legal firms dealing with civil litigation and they have told me it is possible but I want more advice before proceeding further.

 

[DMLegal]

Yes, pretty much. I would like to know the chances of getting it back and if its worth taking it to civil court. It's really the principal that I want over the money. I offered him $500.00 for his wasted time and I think I was very reasonable but he balantly refused and even said I will be the one at a loss cause it's a new car.
I have called around some legal firms dealing with civil litigation and they have told me it is possible but I want more advice before proceeding further.

You certainly sound like you have a case. Indeed it is difficult to give specific advice with the information to hand however in my view the seller misled you and was deceptive in his conduct. The contract could be considered void for his failure to provide information which would ordinarily be expected to be provided in such circumstances. I wouldn't offer him anything, at the end of the day it was arguably through no fault of yours that this situation arose, he clearly never intended to tell you about the history of the car which is simply dishonest in my view. I wouldn't bother with a lawyer just yet, I would just lodge a minor claim at the magistrates court, he will likely get spooked and give you the refund. If he doesn't then withdraw the proceeding before the date and seek a lawyer. Call his bluff, he tried to call yours after all but not telling you about the history of the car.

 

[bbk1n]

You certainly sound like you have a case. Indeed it is difficult to give specific advice with the information to hand however in my view the seller misled you and was deceptive in his conduct. The contract could be considered void for his failure to provide information which would ordinarily be expected to be provided in such circumstances. I wouldn't offer him anything, at the end of the day it was arguably through no fault of yours that this situation arose, he clearly never intended to tell you about the history of the car which is simply dishonest in my view. I wouldn't bother with a lawyer just yet, I would just lodge a minor claim at the magistrates court, he will likely get spooked and give you the refund. If he doesn't then withdraw the proceeding before the date and seek a lawyer. Call his bluff, he tried to call yours after all but not telling you about the history of the car

Thank you very much for the reply DMLegal. It has been very helpful. I will start looking into lodging a minor claim.

 

[Clancy]

As in, the seller refused to refund my deposit because it was a deposit for the car I was about to buy. Telling me, my best option is to buy the car then advising me to sell it afterwards because he was not going to refund me and he would sell the car to another buyer.
So including the money from a new buyer he would make the $15,800 for the car and my deposit of $2,000, totalling to $17,800.



The roof had been fixed but not to a professional standard, you could see the edge lining of the roof, some parts were crooked and just not finished properly. The seal was the other thing, judging by what I saw, it was probably just glued on without the seals.


The car is actually registered at the moment and the plates match the car plates through the transport and main road website,however on the registration receipt paper the car rego was different.
So they either must have changed the plates or got new plates because it was a car without any plates. Did that make sense?

Ok, its a bit clearer now.

Regarding the 'unprofessional repair', that can be a problem. Because it makes you wonder what else was not repaired properly - as you probably realized yourself!

What can happen with repaired cars is that they remain slightly 'bent' in the overall frame - you may not even be able to notice it with the human eye. It means that driving on the open road, the car will not be as stable as it was before. I have actually had this happen too me.... i knowingly bought a repaired write off, and driving on a motorway which i have driven on a million times before, the car span out without warning!!!!! so beware!

Regarding the plates; If i understand that correctly, you have bought the car signing an old obsolete registration paper? not the new current registration paper? You wont be able to transfer the rego into your name using an obsolete registration receipt paper.

Is the new registration even under the same owners name as the old one??