QLD How to Interpret Orders Regarding School Holidays?

[Snapchat07]

My order states that the school holidays begin on the last day of school and the alternate weekends shall be suspended until the first day of the school term as if the suspension hadn't occurred. The date of the final order was made on the last day of the school term weekend prior was parent one.

It states Parent Two has week one weekend and Parent One week two. Do we:

A. Look at who had the last weekend prior to school holidays and then the other parent has the next weekend when school resumes?

B. Start the order from the date the order was signed off in court making week one the very next week that school resumes?

C. Continue to alternate weekends even though the school holidays are shared and the weekends don't actually take place but pretend they did and parent one also gets the first weekend?

I'm so confused

 

[sammy01]

Can you write the exact wording of the orders here?

One more thought - look if you're the primary carer, why not interpret the orders to make sure the other parent gets maximum amount of time? A day or two a year with the other parent is better than looking for a strict interpretation that minimises their time.

If you're not the primary carer, good luck getting the other parent to understand that.

 

[Snapchat07]

Thank you for your response. The order is dated 9th December 2016 (which was the last day of school term in 2016) therefore making the first weekend part of the school holidays.

2.1 The order states that the children live with the father during school term in two week blocks as follows,

Week one, from 2:30pm Wednesday until 7:30am Thursday with the father to collect from school and deliver to the mother's residence

Week two, from 2:30pm Wednesday until 7:30am Thursday with the father to collect from school and deliver to the mother's residence and Friday 5:30pm until Monday 7:30pm with the mother to deliver to the father's residence and the father to deliver to the mother's residence.

In addition to the parenting time in paragraph 2.1 above, for 28 days per annum (1st Jan - 30 Dec), to fall during QLD Gazetted school holiday periods as follows:-

The father will notify the mother in writing 6 weeks prior of the time sought during said school holidays

Provided that:-

QLD gazetted school holidays commence after school on the last day of the school term, and to conclude before school on the first day of the school term;

The parenting time referred to in paragraph 2.1 above will be suspended during school holiday periods, provided that it will recommence during the following school term as if their had been no suspension;

 

[AllForHer]

So dad has to provide notice of what time during the holidays he intends to spend with the child?

We had the same issue interpreting orders as you do, except at the end of the holidays. Mum argued dad's time finished absolutely when school went back so the child returned to mum regardless of whose regular time it was; dad argued that the first day back at school fell on what would ordinarily be his regular time, therefore the child stayed in his care beyond the holidays. Mum checked it with her lawyer, lawyer confirmed dad's interpretation was correct.

If you agree to something different with the child's father, great, but if not, the most common way for it to work is Option C - weekends continue through the holidays, but don't actually take place, then return to regular care in accordance with those weekends at the end of the holidays.

 

[Snapchat07]

So dad has to provide notice of what time during the holidays he intends to spend with the child?

We had the same issue interpreting orders as you do, except at the end of the holidays. Mum argued dad's time finished absolutely when school went back so the child returned to mum regardless of whose regular time it was; dad argued that the first day back at school fell on what would ordinarily be his regular time, therefore the child stayed in his care beyond the holidays. Mum checked it with her lawyer, lawyer confirmed dad's interpretation was correct.

If you agree to something different with the child's father, great, but if not, the most common way for it to work is Option C - weekends continue through the holidays, but don't actually take place, then return to regular care in accordance with those weekends at the end of the holidays.

Thank you for your reply.

One more question the final order is dated 9th December last day of school 2016 also first day of holidays therefore week one would be first week back at school correct? Or do you stay with the interim order?

 

[Snapchat07]

Thankyou for your reply, one more question the final order is dated 9th December last day of school 2016 also first day of holidays therefore week one would be first week back at school correct? Or do you stay with the interim order?

And yes father dictates when he wants kids during school holidays

 

[sammy01]

OK, so the confusion is who has the first weekend after the holiday period ends...

So you kind of have a few options....

1- The worst one - go back to court and seek further clarification

2- The second worst one - go back to your solicitor and ask them to clarify their understanding.

3- The best one - I'm assuming you're the mum / primary carer. Just ask dad which weekend he wants...

The problem is, your orders are not clear. I can see how it could be confused and that leads to arguments. My orders stated that dad had the first weekend after the commencement of each school term, so it was very clear to all concerned who had the kids after each set of holidays.

But by my way of thinking, the intention is that the alternating continues even in the holidays - So if dad has weekend A, you would have weekend B. He would have C you would have D -

So one problem I see - If it is due to be his weekend and the holidays start then he misses that weekend, doesn't see the kids all holidays and the next weekend when school goes back is also likely to be your weekend

I'd go back to my options - What is wrong with asking him for his interpretation and just accepting it?

BTW - dad doesn't dictate when he has the kids in the holidays. By my calculations, there are about 80 days a year that are classified as holidays periods. He gets 28 of them you get 52 of them... So who is winning that one? You...

But for the purposes of making these things work, there has to be some rules about how the times will be allocated.

Final thought - There are several ways the orders you typed could be interpreted and that leads to conflict. Look I think the best thing really is to ask dad to tell you how he interprets it and just go with that. Tell him that you would like him to consider it a gesture of goodwill.

For many divorced couples thing settle down after a while and both parties find themselves wondering what all the fighting was about... It can take years, but I reckon the sooner you start working towards a bit of good will and a bit of give and take the better.

 

[Snapchat07]

ok so the confusion is WHO has the first weekend after the holiday period ends...
So you kind of have a few options....
1- THE WORST one - go back to court and seek further clarificaiton
2- THe second worst one - go back to your solicitor and ask them to clarify their understanding.
3- The best one - I'm assuming you're the mum / primary carer. Just ask dad which weekend he wants....

the problem is your orders are not clear, I can see how it could be confused and that leads to arguments.... My orders stated that dad had the first weekend after the commencement of each school term, so it was very clear to all concerned who had the kids after each set of holidays.

BUTT by my way of thinking the intention is that the alternating contines even in the holidays - So IF dad has weekend A - YOU would have weekend B - he would have C you would have D -
So one problem I see - IF it is due to be his weekend and the holidays start then he misses that weekend, doesn't see the kids all holidays AND the next weekend when school goes back is also likely to be your weekend

I'd go back to my options - What is wrong with asking him for his interpretation and just accepting it????

BTW - DAD doesn't dicate when he has the kids in the holidays. By my calculations there are about 80 days a year that are clasified as holidays periods. He gets 28 of them YOU get 52 of them... So who is winning that one? YOU.... BUT for the purposes of making these things work there has to be some rules about how the times will be allocated..

FInal thought - THere are several ways the orders you typed could be interpreted and that leads to conflict.... Look I think the best thing really is to ask dad to tell you how he interprets it and just go with that. Tell him that you would like him to consider it a gesture of goodwill. For many divorced couples thing settle down after a while and both parties find themselves wondering what all the fighting was about... IT can take years, but I reckon the sooner you start working towards a bit of good will and a bit of give and take the better.

Thanks Sammy,

The father refused to have half the school holidays as he only has 4 weeks annual leave our original order was alternating weeks of school holidays and half each. I also gave him a weekend in the middle so that he wouldn't not see the children for 3 weeks. I am the one really trying to make this work. As the weekend in question has been and gone and he has gone on to have alternate weeks I see no problem in just continuing however I foresee a problem for every school holidays here on in due to the different ways this can be interpreted, because his lawyers have added an additional weekend into each school holidays it will always be the same parent missing out on a weekend when school resumes should we continue as if the weekends had happened.

My interpretation is that this is suspended and the alternate parent has the weekend after school resumes than the parent who had the weekend before making it a very fair way for both parents and the kids. I have wondered if there is an app we can use to have it mapped out for us. I will definitely be trying to work this out with his lawyer, he has a lot of money and I do not so am acting on my own behalf. I just know that he will do the opposite to anything I suggest regardless but I will try.

Thanks for your input not all of us Mums are the difficult one's I really am the one trying here and have extended several olive leafs to him in the hopes we can communicate better for the children all of which have been met with animosity. I am sure given more time things will settle down.

Thanks again.

 

[Snapchat07]

Thanks Sammy, The father refused to have half the school holidays as he only has 4 weeks annual leave our original order was alternating weeks of school holidays and half each. I also gave him a weekend in the middle so that he wouldn't not see the children for 3 weeks. I am the one really trying to make this work. As the weekend in question has been and gone and he has gone on to have alternate weeks I see no problem in just continuing however I forsee a problem for every school holidays here on in due to the different ways this can be interpreted, because his lawyers have added an additional weekend into each school holidays it will always be the same parent missing out on a weekend when school resumes should we continue as if the weekends had happened. My interpretation is that this is suspended and the alternate parent has the weekend after school resumes than the parent who had the weekend before making it a very fair way for both parents and the kids. I have wondered if there is an app we can use to have it mapped out for us. I will definitely be trying to work this out with his lawyer, he has alot of money and I do not so am acting on my own behalf. I just know that he will do the opposite to anything I suggest regardless but I will try. Thanks for your input not all of us Mums are the difficult one's I really am the one trying here and have extended several olive leafs to him in the hopes we can communicate better for the children all of which have been met with animosity. I am sure given more time things will settle down. thanks again.

And yes he does dictate the 4 weeks he wants for the school holidays I don't get a say in it. I am left with the remaining larger portion but effectively can't plan anything until 6 weeks prior when he has given me his notice making it a little difficult to plan big trips however hopefully over time this wont be a problem and he will let me plan trips in advance as well.

 

[AllForHer]

Thankyou for your reply, one more question the final order is dated 9th December last day of school 2016 also first day of holidays therefore week one would be first week back at school correct? Or do you stay with the interim order?

Personally, I would just stick to whatever pattern was in place before the order was made (e.g. Just continue the pattern that was in place with the interim orders). I wouldn't restart the pattern when school recommences, but again, if you and dad agree on something different, so be it.

If you're still undecided, I think I agree with sammy01 about asking dad what he wants to do and just going with it, but be clear that whatever is decided now is the pattern that will persist indefinitely. It doesn't work if the pattern changes every twelves weeks when the holidays end.