NSW Do I have to make my kids visit there Dad ?

[Amy1984]

I have recently had a strained conversation with my ex about relocation, during which he says our eldest told him he doesn't want to go. However our child only said what his father wanted to hear, as he has a short temper and there has been a DVO in place in the past.
In short, our child is afraid of his father's reaction if he says the wrong thing.
Now he says he doesn't want to go to his father's next weekend for their normal visitation, because he's afraid he'll be yelled at or treated badly because of his true feelings.
We have no court orders, only a parenting plan.
Do I have to make him go to visit his Dad ?

 

[Tremaine]

A parenting order isn't in place, so there's no immediate consequence to you if you don't make your son visit his dad. Parenting plans aren't enforceable, after all.

But should you really, really encourage him to? Absolutely.

It doesn't sound like dad is really on board with the move, so if dad decides to file an application opposing the relocation, and you've decided to handle the situation leading up to the relocation by doing nothing to encourage the child to spend time with his dad, you'll be showing the court that the relocation should not be allowed because you're incapable of supporting and encouraging that relationship at all, let alone across the tyranny of distance.

How old is the child?

 

[sammy01]

So when the kid talks to you, he tells the truth? but when he talks to dad he only tells dad what he wants to hear? Says who? YOU?
Maybe the kid is only telling you what YOU want to hear.

Now the other problem here is it seems that you've told the kids about the move. Why would you do that if dad hasn't agreed? Basically, because of the choices YOU made the kid is now stuck in a situation where he is involved in the hostility and conflict between the parents. The kids didn't need to know about the move until it was confirmed... Now if they dont go they will see it as dad's fault and I have no doubt you wont have a problem with that...

 

[Amy1984]

So when the kid talks to you, he tells the truth? but when he talks to dad he only tells dad what he wants to hear? Says who? YOU?
Maybe the kid is only telling you what YOU want to hear.

Now the other problem here is it seems that you've told the kids about the move. Why would you do that if dad hasn't agreed? Basically, because of the choices YOU made the kid is now stuck in a situation where he is involved in the hostility and conflict between the parents. The kids didn't need to know about the move until it was confirmed... Now if they dont go they will see it as dad's fault and I have no doubt you wont have a problem with that...

Firstly - this a child who's father used to hit me, degrade me and his child, regularly called his then 6 yr old child a c**t, who assaulted me in front of our other child ( amongst countless other things ), a child who has been counselling and seeing psychiatrists to help with the anxiety he feels around what his father has done to him ..... so I'm pretty confident that YES he is only telling his father what he wants to hear, because he's afraid of the consequences if he doesn't.

Secondly - I didn't tell him about the move, HIS FATHER DID. Over a month ago I approached my ex saying we would like to relocate in 12 -18 months, would he be amenable to that ? Seems my ex then went straight to my son and went ' your mother wants to move, do you want to move ? ' .... and I only found this out when my child came to me asking about it. So I was with him, and we talked about the motivations behind it. After that is when I then had to have the strained conversation with my ex. If he had been more discreet and kept the conversation between us until we'd reached a compromise, we wouldn't have this issue.

Now, unless you can answer the very simple legal question answer I've asked, I'd suggest you keep all your assumptions to yourself.

 

[nat 2015]

Firstly - this a child who's father used to hit me, degrade me and his child, regularly called his then 6 yr old child a c**t, who assaulted me in front of our other child ( amongst countless other things ), a child who has been counselling and seeing psychiatrists to help with the anxiety he feels around what his father has done to him ..... so I'm pretty confident that YES he is only telling his father what he wants to hear, because he's afraid of the consequences if he doesn't.

Secondly - I didn't tell him about the move, HIS FATHER DID. Over a month ago I approached my ex saying we would like to relocate in 12 -18 months, would he be amenable to that ? Seems my ex then went straight to my son and went ' your mother wants to move, do you want to move ? ' .... and I only found this out when my child came to me asking about it. So I was with him, and we talked about the motivations behind it. After that is when I then had to have the strained conversation with my ex. If he had been more discreet and kept the conversation between us until we'd reached a compromise, we wouldn't have this issue.

Now, unless you can answer the very simple legal question answer I've asked, I'd suggest you keep all your assumptions to yourself.

Hi,
Since there are no court signed orders your free to move where you like, but in saying that he could go and get a recovery order and start proceedings against you, then you may be ordered back.
I would try and have organise mediation and see if it can be resolved there.
My son is going thru a very similar thing my ex often will threaten to sell items of my sons that have sentimental value to him if my son doesnt go and see him, my son is 16 and I have no orders, and it has certainly affected my son, it's unfortunate that some parents think they can behave in this way.

Good luck , there are plenty of people on here who have or are going thru court etc

 

[Amy1984]

A parenting order isn't in place, so there's no immediate consequence to you if you don't make your son visit his dad. Parenting plans aren't enforceable, after all.

But should you really, really encourage him to? Absolutely.

It doesn't sound like dad is really on board with the move, so if dad decides to file an application opposing the relocation, and you've decided to handle the situation leading up to the relocation by doing nothing to encourage the child to spend time with his dad, you'll be showing the court that the relocation should not be allowed because you're incapable of supporting and encouraging that relationship at all, let alone across the tyranny of distance.

How old is the child?

Our son is turning 10 next month. We already live two hours apart - not long after our separation my ex decided to move two hours away, without telling us. I only found out when I tried to serve him notification of property settlement action.

 

[Atticus]

We have no court orders, only a parenting plan.
Do I have to make him go to visit his Dad ?

To give you the actual legalities.....As you know a parenting plan is not legally enforceable, so no DIRECT legal consequence by not adhering to it... BUT. If dad were to make a court application opposing your relocation, & at the same time seeking regular visitation, then the terms of the current plan, MUST be given consideration, & the judge will want to know why you have decided to not adhere to it as agreed..... The fact that you have had a DVO in the past is not likely to be given any weight (assuming it is historical & only you were named as the protected person not your son)...

If there were orders in place NOW, you would be compelled to make every effort to have your son available for visitation... The ONLY exception to that is if there is clear evidence of physical or psychological harm (which can not be based on just one parents fears or allegations) & even then the court would test it to see if the contravention is justified...

So your call, but as already suggested, professional mediation is the first step if you are not able to discuss it with dad.... Mediation almost always involves compromise by both sides.... Is it any surprise that dad is not happy with the prospect of his kid/s relocating at a distance that will affect their relationship.... I'm quite sure you would feel the same in his position so compromise & tact is key. After all he is the parent on the back foot here ATM & initial frustration & anger with an issue like this is surely not unexpected & could get the better of anybody...

 

[Amy1984]

To give you the actual legalities.....As you know a parenting plan is not legally enforceable, so no DIRECT legal consequence by not adhering to it... BUT. If dad were to make a court application opposing your relocation, & at the same time seeking regular visitation, then the terms of the current plan, MUST be given consideration, & the judge will want to know why you have decided to not adhere to it as agreed..... The fact that you have had a DVO in the past is not likely to be given any weight (assuming it is historical & only you were named as the protected person not your son)...

If there were orders in place NOW, you would be compelled to make every effort to have your son available for visitation... The ONLY exception to that is if there is clear evidence of physical or psychological harm (which can not be based on just one parents fears or allegations) & even then the court would test it to see if the contravention is justified...

So your call, but as already suggested, professional mediation is the first step if you are not able to discuss it with dad.... Mediation almost always involves compromise by both sides.... Is it any surprise that dad is not happy with the prospect of his kid/s relocating at a distance that will affect their relationship.... I'm quite sure you would feel the same in his position so compromise & tact is key. After all he is the parent on the back foot here ATM & initial frustration & anger with an issue like this is surely not unexpected & could get the better of anybody...

Unhappiness on his behalf is absolutely to be expected, which is why I asked him the question 12-18 months before we actually want to go anywhere. I had hoped we might be able to discuss it and come to a compromise privately, but I did anticipate we might require mediation, which is why I've given things plenty of time.
As I said above, he already lives two hours away from us - he chose to move, without even telling us let alone consulting with us. He has since at a new partner and has a child with her. He sees the children every second weekend, though will quite often choose to swap or miss weekends so he can do other things. I honestly think his major objection is not that we want to eventually move ... but that we want to move as a family with my new partner.

The fact that he has decided to drag one of our children into it, and is trying to make it a me vs him thing is very disappointing.

 

[sammy01]

A parenting plan is not enforceable like court orders. So the answer is NO you don't have to send him and you can move where ever you like.
Simple.
Is it a good idea to send the kid? yes.
Why? Well your next step should be to inform dad you're gonna move and if he has a problem with that he can apply to the courts to stop you.... if he fails to do anything to stop you, then you can move. BTW how far are you moving?

Please re-read your first post. It smacks of you presenting yourself in a very positive way and dad in a very negative way. This is not a good approach. And frankly, from here I'm still not prepared to assume that you are gold and dad is crap. Sorry, but just because YOU say dad is crap and you are good doesn't make it so. Not here, nor in a court. So you're better off presenting yourself differently. Right now the kids spending time with dad AND you giving dad a reasonable compromise around this planned move will serve you better in the long run.