QLD Consent Orders and Relocation - Can Ex Make Me Return?

[Deeken]

Hi

I have two kids with my ex. We split 4 years ago and he's had very little to do with the kids since then. I've since remarried and have relocated with his permission from NSW to QLD. My son has a disability and I found life in QLD more suited to helping him overcome some of his challenges. We have seen a huge improvement which has been medically documented.

Before we moved, he wanted consent orders drawn up and did a draft of them but never got it finished and never got me to sign anything. Since moving almost a year ago, I have allowed my ex to speak to the kids on the phone (he calls once every few weeks) and they visit him for part of the school holidays. They don't like visiting him or speaking to him as he doesn't make a lot of effort to get to know them and hasn't been around much, even when we lived in NSW but I've told them he is their dad and they have to go. They feel he only makes an effort with them to impress his new partner.

He never paid much toward their care, we had a private arrangement and I never pressed for more money because he told me he wasn't working so I accepted a very minimal amount for three years. I got suspicious recently that may be a lie so I decided I should apply formally through child support. I discovered he earns twice as much as me and he was ordered to pay over double what he previously was paying.

I regret doing this as now it has sparked off a chain of events where his new partner has organised consent orders to be drawn up with over the top strict and unfair conditions....stating the kids have to talk to him every day (they wouldn't even talk to me on the phone every day, they are kids and hate that kind of thing) and he has to have them for the entire school holidays every time, he books their flights on my behalf and I have to repay him within a week and he only has to do it two weeks before they leave (I currently do this months before so I get the cheaper flights), that he can take them overseas whenever he wants without my consent, etc.

I wrote back to his lawyer saying no I wasn't signing anything like that and that I currently give him phone access and holiday access to the kids so I don't see the need for this but I would be happy to negotiate a parenting plan with him. I heard nothing back and three weeks went by and he never called the kids so I emailed him asking him to call them. He replied saying I had better sign the consent orders or he would extradite me to NSW.

Then he CC'ed me in on an email to his lawyer saying he wants to pursue me further. The kids are scared we will have to move back and I am too. I don't know how he could do this if he was ok with this in the first place and hasn't had a problem with it until I refused to sign his consent orders. I don't want to be locked into having to put them on the phone or forcing them to travel to Sydney. This means even if my son is sick at that time I would have to put him on a plane or I could legally be in trouble.

Can he make me return to Sydney? I can't afford to give my kids a good life there. What happens if I don't sign the orders? I don't want to be taken to court. I give him a very decent amount of access anyway. I have never kept them from him.

 

[sammy01]

no he cant make you return to Sydney.. the courts can. Will they? Well you have given us a little bit of your version of the story... So do you have anything in writing / email / text message that says he gave permission for you to move to QLD? that would definitely help your cause..

Now you said you've been away almost a year? how long exactly?
Next - telling kids about something that MIGHT happen is poor form. So every time there is a bill, a car rego a life problem do you tell the kids? What possible benefit / purpose is there in telling the kids? Sorry gonna be blunt here. My ex would tell the kids negative stuff about me. As far as kids go a needs to know rule is the best rule

 

[AllForHer]

If you've got written proof of his consent to allow you to relocate, it's unlikely the Court will make an order for you to move back down to Sydney a year after the fact.

But you should probably negotiate consent orders for the kids to see him, because if you don't, he may end up pursuing the matter in Court, where orders will be made whether you agree with them or not.

 

[Deeken]

no he cant make you return to Sydney.. the courts can. Will they? Well you have given us a little bit of your version of the story... So do you have anything in writing / email / text message that says he gave permission for you to move to QLD? that would definitely help your cause..

Now you said you've been away almost a year? how long exactly?
Next - telling kids about something that MIGHT happen is poor form. So every time there is a bill, a car rego a life problem do you tell the kids? What possible benefit / purpose is there in telling the kids? Sorry gonna be blunt here. My ex would tell the kids negative stuff about me. As far as kids go a needs to know rule is the best rule

How dare you tell me my parenting is poor form! Did I ask your opinion on my parenting? Obviously your experience with your ex has made you a very bitter man. You don't know me or what goes on in my life so in future if people come on here asking about legal matters stick to that and keep your parenting opinions out of it

 

[sammy01]

oh dear.... So you came here, you provided information... With that information I provided a response. So nope, not bitter, quite the opposite. See even though, yoi've attacked me, I'm still helping you out...

So- My ex tried to relocate with the kids... now the kids live with me and she rarely sees them. So I reckon I have some insight. One of the things that could come up IF this went to court is that the kids could be interviewed by a child psychologist. IF the psyc felt there was the possibility that you have tried to persuade the kids one way or another (even if you have not - but if it is a possibility) it ain't gonna look good. Now there are plenty of cases where one parent has moved away. If the other parent can establish in the eyes of the court that the decisions made were intended to alienate the children from their other parent it is not a good look.

My kids now understand that they will go visit their mum, they will talk to her on the phone. IT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. I don't let them think they have an opinion. Occasionally, they express an opinion and I shut the conversation down. I definitely do not engage or encourage such conversation. Here is why.... I'm not gonna give my ex half a chance to take this to court.

Now at present, you have lots going for you. You have been in your current location for nearly a year, with no complaints from dad up till now? right? You had his written agreement to go? right? was that in writing? I hope so... If not in writing, you've got 2 things going against you...

BUT right now you have a serious flaw in your case and you created it.... There is now a possibility that a case can be made to show that you are trying to avoid letting the kids see dad. If that comes up in court - a good solicitor will make the case that you have deliberately tried to minimise the kids contact with dad and the evidence a solicitor would use would be derived from child opsych report that says the kids have a negative opinion of dad.... And if a solicitor makes a good enough case that YOU CAUSED IT then that will not bode well for you... Don't believe me - look up cases that involve parental alientation. The parent who has been found to have alientated the kids NEVER EVER accepts it. Oh dear, bit like you? look maybe you have gone about alientating the kids from dad, maybe you have not, I don't care.... BUT you have created a good case to argue that point in a court. OUCH. And if you don't have written evidence to show dad agreed for the move then your case is looking all the more flimsy...

My advice - start making the case to show that you're keen on the kids being involved with dad... next time school photos come round, buy extras and send them to him. Ask him if he would like to make an agreed time to skype... Do everything you can to encourage a relationship with kids and dad. OR DONT....

I gotta go - gotta drive 6 hours round trip for t he kids to spend an extended weekend with their mum...
No need to say thanks for the advice

 

[Deeken]

oh dear.... So you came here, you provided information... With that information I provided a response. So nope, not bitter, quite the opposite. See even though, yoi've attacked me, I'm still helping you out...

So- My ex tried to relocate with the kids... now the kids live with me and she rarely sees them. So I reckon I have some insight. One of the things that could come up IF this went to court is that the kids could be interviewed by a child psychologist. IF the psyc felt there was the possibility that you have tried to persuade the kids one way or another (even if you have not - but if it is a possibility) it ain't gonna look good. Now there are plenty of cases where one parent has moved away. If the other parent can establish in the eyes of the court that the decisions made were intended to alienate the children from their other parent it is not a good look.

My kids now understand that they will go visit their mum, they will talk to her on the phone. IT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. I don't let them think they have an opinion. Occasionally, they express an opinion and I shut the conversation down. I definitely do not engage or encourage such conversation. Here is why.... I'm not gonna give my ex half a chance to take this to court.

Now at present, you have lots going for you. You have been in your current location for nearly a year, with no complaints from dad up till now? right? You had his written agreement to go? right? was that in writing? I hope so... If not in writing, you've got 2 things going against you...

BUT right now you have a serious flaw in your case and you created it.... There is now a possibility that a case can be made to show that you are trying to avoid letting the kids see dad. If that comes up in court - a good solicitor will make the case that you have deliberately tried to minimise the kids contact with dad and the evidence a solicitor would use would be derived from child opsych report that says the kids have a negative opinion of dad.... And if a solicitor makes a good enough case that YOU CAUSED IT then that will not bode well for you... Don't believe me - look up cases that involve parental alientation. The parent who has been found to have alientated the kids NEVER EVER accepts it. Oh dear, bit like you? look maybe you have gone about alientating the kids from dad, maybe you have not, I don't care.... BUT you have created a good case to argue that point in a court. OUCH. And if you don't have written evidence to show dad agreed for the move then your case is looking all the more flimsy...

My advice - start making the case to show that you're keen on the kids being involved with dad... next time school photos come round, buy extras and send them to him. Ask him if he would like to make an agreed time to skype... Do everything you can to encourage a relationship with kids and dad. OR DONT....

I gotta go - gotta drive 6 hours round trip for t he kids to spend an extended weekend with their mum...
No need to say thanks for the advice

How the hell have I tried to alienate them from their dad when I have put them on the phone AND sent them to Sydney? You clearly cannot read. He was more than happy for them to move away and I have it in writing. Anything else you want to pick apart?

 

[Deeken]

How the hell have I tried to alienate them from their dad when I have put them on the phone AND sent them to Sydney? You clearly cannot read. He was more than happy for them to move away and I have it in writing. Anything else you want to pick apart?

Oh and apart from copies of emails I have showing I have forwarded him all my sons medical reports and school reports and asked for him to call them kids when he hasn't for months at a time I don't think I'm going to be labelled as someone trying to alienate my kids from their dad. You've clearly got issues

 

[sammy01]

How have u alienated the kid?you moved interstate. You. You refused to negotiate around holiday time.... and that forced it into court.. and if you approach court with the same agro you are showing me you are gonna have issues.

What i am trying to show u is the case the ex is likely to present to the court. Now how the heck do i know...all i have is the little bit of your version of the story... that is all id love to know dads version...

My suggestion?write back to solicitor offering consent orders. Half all holidays and half travel expenses. One phone call a week on agreed day and other phone contact by agreement...

But why even consider my well intentioned advice after all i have issues right...so ignore me... but getting a solicitor to represent u in sydney if the ex files for court is gonna be heaps more expensive than my advice... but solicitors advice will be similar... please be as rude to solicitor as u have been to me

 

[AllForHer]

Not sure what all the defensiveness is about, OP. Realistically, all of what @sammy01 has said is no different to what could be pitched to you by the other party in Court, is this the level of self-control you would retain if called to answer under cross-examination?

Bottom line is this: it's very common for one parent to argue in Court that the other is not supportive of the kids' relationship with them. It's also very common for the Court to find in that parent's favour.

Nobody here is suggesting this is the case for you, so I'm not entirely clear as to why you have become so defensive. Personally, I would rather someone play some realistic Devil's Advocate with my case than just assume I'm guaranteed a win.

 

[King Neptune]

Here's a fresh decision posted today that required a mother (or at least the kids) to move back after relocating: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCCA/2017/1684.html

The parents naturally had different back stories about what was agreed; as the saying goes there's 3 sides to every story, and once you get tied up in court the facts are opaque. Not everyone (i.e. the court) will see things how you will, which is the point others are making above. The courts also do make wacky decisions sometimes even when everything seems to make sense on the surface. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.