NSW Australian Law - Opinions on IVO Changes to the Legislation?

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sammy01

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27 September 2015
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Hey ladies and gentlemen...

So thatbloke mentioned in a previous thread about the changes to IVO laws in Australian Law. My understanding is that the new laws mean a self-represented respondent can't question their accuser. Gonna be honest, I have not read up on it all that much. But I thought I'd start a thread where the good folk here can discuss their understanding of these changes to help us all understand it better.

I'm wondering if this discussion could be civilised?
 

Rod

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27 May 2014
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Which state was this in relation to? Each state has their own IVO laws. Vic has at least laws relating to intervention orders.

Found and read the bill MartyK linked. The Family Law Amendment (Family Violence and Cross examination of Parties) Bill 2018 seems fairly innocuous and just means in certain situations a person may need to hire a lawyer to ask questions of their victim/perpetrator.

Can't see any other new bills in Victoria affecting IVOs.
 

thatbloke

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5 February 2018
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It is not innocuous at all. It is very very serious for self-represented people. The reason people self-represent is that they cannot afford up to 15k a day for a lawyer and barrister in a final hearing. Well, except me, I can't afford it but I enjoy self representing.

There are people who are in the middle of getting clarification on three things. These people work and have been working for years on getting serious amendments though to change the system.

1: Does just charges, unproven and unconvicted, make the other party a protected witness, as this is how it reads " (i) either party has been convicted of, or is charged with, an offence involving violence, or a threat of violence, to the other party;"? Note the word "or".

2: In the legislation draft it says, "any of the following are satisfied" before the above and urgent clarification is being sought as to if this does indeed mean any of the things listed or is it an oversight in the legislation and it should actually say all?

3: There is also clarification being sought as to the nature of the screen or video type evidence proposed, when it would occur (what variables) and of course... Who pays?

I know someone who is on top of contacting the actual legislators (amongst others) for this clarification, as the word "or" and "any" make this legislation very scary indeed. Imagine, three weeks before a final hearing someone makes a false complaint, you are charged, you are self represented and then you cannot question the other side. Lawyers and especially Barristers will hardly ever take on a brief at such short notice from a self represented person.

This is very dangerous legislation. As it reads right now and if you add it to the other new legislation where Judges might well get power to just tell people they have no chance of winning a case and dismissing it at any stage self represented people are getting a hammering. Not the time to be consenting to any protection orders.
 

MartyK

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4 June 2016
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sammy01

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27 September 2015
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Ready... thanks that bloke...

Yup that was my understanding... The right of the accused to question their accuser with a judge in the room to pull the accused up if the accused's line of questioning is out of line is being removed...

So for fun... I apply for an AVO against thatbloke for his harassment... Despite thatbloke enjoying self-representing, he can't question me about my claims. So he will have to accept my advice to accept without admission or pay a solicitor...

Go on that bloke... A gentle jibe is all...

And I agree it is an appalling state of affairs.
 

miguel

Well-Known Member
30 May 2018
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Ready.... thanks that bloke....
Yup that was my understanding... the right of the accused to question their accuser with a judge in the room to pull the accused up if the accused's line of questioning is outa line is being removed...

So for fun.... i apply for an avo against that bloke for his harassment.... despite that bloke enjoying self representing, he cant question me about my claims. So he will have to accept my advice to accept without admission or pay a solicitor...
Go on that bloke... a gentle jibe is all...

And i agree it is an appalling state of affairs.

This already happens in Victoria in FVIO's.

In Victoria, a SRL can't cross examine the applicant of an FVIO. A solicitor quoted me 2k. he also told me there's a 100% chance an order will be imposed in some form.

Anyone got stats on males with FVIO's in the FCC/Family court system?
 

MartyK

Well-Known Member
4 June 2016
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For others - a number of concerns were raised in submissions last year - not only for SRL’s - for alleged and proven victims and perpetrators - for legal representatives and the Court.

Possible impartiality of the Courts being compromised? - separation of powers issues? - discretionary powers of judges removed by mandatory legislation? Lawyers unsure of their role and how it might conflict with their duties?

IMO - with further clarity - it is definitely a step in the right direction - as miguel said Magistrates Courts already have similar protections in place.

Note - the legislation only applies to trial - has not yet passed - if it does - will be reviewed in 2 years from operation or thereabouts.

A different review - much bigger - is due to be released early next year - it will look at the system and legislation as a whole.
 

thatbloke

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5 February 2018
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This already happens in Victoria in FVIO's.

In Victoria, a SRL can't cross examine the applicant of an FVIO. A solicitor quoted me 2k. he also told me there's a 100% chance an order will be imposed in some form.
Yes I know. Although protection is the default, it is up to the judges discretion if they want to allow questioning. I find the whole idea of protected witnesses disgusting unless it's children. It takes away a lot of procedural fairness to people with no money.
 

thatbloke

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5 February 2018
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God I don't think it's a step in the right direction, quite the opposite in fact.
I seriously do not understand how anyone can think this is a step in the right direction. It beggars belief that someone who posts in a forum where people come to get serious help supports something that basically pulls the rug out from under their feet. I could say a lot more but i wont except to say i totally agree with you and so does every single other person i know who helps SRL's in court in the real world.

Clementine Ford probably supports it..plus a whole bunch of loony leftists and feminazis...I know what camp i would rather be in. No more needs to be said really.