NSW Affidavit lying

[justine82]

I’ve had an interesting encounter today. And just a wtf moment..

So last year my ex broke into my home one morning whilst he was highly intoxicated, breaching a very strict ADVO I had in place after he threatened my life. The morning he broke in, I had woke up to him climbing into my bed, bleeding from a fight he had. My best friend was sleeping over that night and my ex had first woken her up as she was sleeping on my couch, so I had a witness. The breach was reported to police.

My ex has now just initiated court proceedings and I’ve read his affidavit. In his affidavit he states I made the break in up and claimed to have had a witness. Because, apparently, that was my response after he had initiated mediation through Relationships Australian. To file a false police report and breach him of the ADVO.

So today I emailed him, asked him why did he lie in his affidavit, he plead guilty for it at court. He emailed me back and said he didn’t lie to the courts in his affidavit and acknowledged the event happened….. wtf?! Just what?!

He does not seem okay, cannot believe he lied in his affidavit yet wrote to me today stating he knows the event happened. Now I have the extra proof. What does everything think of this? I wonder how the judge will see this.

 

[sammy01]

U'm... Depending on the conditions on the avo.... I'm wondering why are you even contacting him.... Sorry NOT gonna like me. But let me give you my angle... MY ex took an avo. I was not allowed to contact her. OK, sweet, never wanted to hear from her again.... Then she started calling me. Calling me. Calling me. NOw you have an avo on this guy. You don't want him in your life? Then leave him the hell alone....

My advice - leave him alone. I reckon the judge might just blow up at you... YEP, seriously.... You need protecting right? strict conditions to keep him away from you? But you're provoking him by emailing him?

Now as for the email? Hm. big deal. He said, she said blah blah blah.
U'm lets take a step back... When he broke into your house... You reported it to the cops? Ok... Did you call 000?

My thinking. Leave the guy alone and hope he does the same to you. Don't email him.

 

[justine82]

U'm... Depending on the conditions on the avo.... I'm wondering why are you even contacting him.... Sorry NOT gonna like me. But let me give you my angle... MY ex took an avo. I was not allowed to contact her. OK, sweet, never wanted to hear from her again.... Then she started calling me. Calling me. Calling me. NOw you have an avo on this guy. You don't want him in your life? Then leave him the hell alone....

My advice - leave him alone. I reckon the judge might just blow up at you... YEP, seriously.... You need protecting right? strict conditions to keep him away from you? But you're provoking him by emailing him?

Now as for the email? Hm. big deal. He said, she said blah blah blah.
U'm lets take a step back... When he broke into your house... You reported it to the cops? Ok... Did you call 000?

My thinking. Leave the guy alone and hope he does the same to you. Don't email him.

Interesting response, considering I didn't ask for opinions over contact. And you don't know the conditions of the ADVO (which now allow contact over the case and children), so your answer was a bit of a waste of time. I did not email him in a vicious way, it was not provoking. And yes of course I called 000? You just sound very angry at your own personal situation with your ex, did she take out the AVO or the police? Good luck to you, Sammy!

 

[sammy01]

hey, you asked for opinions. You mentioned a 'very strict avo' YOUR WORDS. And yes I don't know the conditions of the avo. WHY? well you didn't tell us. Oh so contact allowed? Now guess what? the contact isn't about the 'case' the contact that is allowed is about contact with children. Go on, find something in the court orders that states you can contact him to drill him about the affidavit? and type it here. Aint gonna happen, any first year law student is gonna know that one... Only contact about the kids... BET ya...

You asked "What does everything think of this?" Very general question and I gave a very general answer based on the info provided BY YOU. Hm, no need to say thanks.
You asked "I wonder how the judge will see this" I answered. I reckon the judge might just blow up at you... Yup, I reckon he might... I also reckon the emails prove nothing.

To answer the question. Yup the police took out the avo on my ex's behalf. Angry at my personal situation? hmm at the time sure. These days. Not so much... NOPE not now that I've been through all that crap and I now have some court stamped papers that read "The children shall live with their father.". So happy ending, despite some pretty putrid and false allegations to start proceedings.... Which, might give you food for thought. How can a bloke go from not being allowed within 200 metres of his own kid, to having court orders that state "The children shall live with their father".
I might have learned a thing or two along the way and now dispense what I've learned happily to others. Again, no need to say thanks.

Now as for whether or not you emailed him in a vicious way, or a provoking way? Hmm good oh. Yup, I wrote my response without any anger, just a guy giving advice. BUT that is how you read it... Any chance someone else could interpret your email to him as being vicious? provocative? Yup... I reckon. Oh but you didn't mean it that way? Well that is ok then...

Regardless, my advice stays the same. Minimise contact. Email him ONLY about arrangements for the kids. Pick up / drop off's. But hey - IF you disagree, sweet. But I would like to know, just for fun. Why bother. Why email him about anything other than the kiddies? Seriously, I'm looking forward to your reply.

 

[justine82]

hey, you asked for opinions. You mentioned a 'very strict avo' YOUR WORDS. And yes I don't know the conditions of the avo. WHY? well you didn't tell us. Oh so contact allowed? Now guess what? the contact isn't about the 'case' the contact that is allowed is about contact with children. Go on, find something in the court orders that states you can contact him to drill him about the affidavit? and type it here. Aint gonna happen, any first year law student is gonna know that one... Only contact about the kids... BET ya...

You asked "What does everything think of this?" Very general question and I gave a very general answer based on the info provided BY YOU. Hm, no need to say thanks.
You asked "I wonder how the judge will see this" I answered. I reckon the judge might just blow up at you... Yup, I reckon he might... I also reckon the emails prove nothing.

To answer the question. Yup the police took out the avo on my ex's behalf. Angry at my personal situation? hmm at the time sure. These days. Not so much... NOPE not now that I've been through all that crap and I now have some court stamped papers that read "The children shall live with their father.". So happy ending, despite some pretty putrid and false allegations to start proceedings.... Which, might give you food for thought. How can a bloke go from not being allowed within 200 metres of his own kid, to having court orders that state "The children shall live with their father".
I might have learned a thing or two along the way and now dispense what I've learned happily to others. Again, no need to say thanks.

Now as for whether or not you emailed him in a vicious way, or a provoking way? Hmm good oh. Yup, I wrote my response without any anger, just a guy giving advice. BUT that is how you read it... Any chance someone else could interpret your email to him as being vicious? provocative? Yup... I reckon. Oh but you didn't mean it that way? Well that is ok then...

Regardless, my advice stays the same. Minimise contact. Email him ONLY about arrangements for the kids. Pick up / drop off's. But hey - IF you disagree, sweet. But I would like to know, just for fun. Why bother. Why email him about anything other than the kiddies? Seriously, I'm looking forward to your reply.

Oh dear. I did ask opinions on how the judge would view lying on an affidavit… didn’t I?

Hmm yea I didn’t mention the ADVO had changed, but my question was based on judges perspective on lying in affidavits… not about the contact.

I emailed him about it as he is still my children’s father and I was concerned that he had lied so much in his affidavit. I obviously have to defend myself in my own affidavit, I didn’t want it to come to this.

I don’t disagree about minimising contact. We hardly ever talk. I send him photos of the children here and there, and answer him when he asks how they are. But he isn’t willing to see the children without being ordered by a judge. I asked if he could organise supervised contact with the kids, he said not until it’s court ordered. In his affidavit he states he’s seeking supervised visits. So it all doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve tried making arrangements with him outside of the courts. He is the one insisting we be in family court though. In his affidavit he states he is “desperate to see his kids now” … then why is he so hesitant on making arrangements ourselves or through a mediator? I dunno 🤷🏻‍♀️

Im looking into private mediators for us. Maybe he’ll budge if I initiate that. I don’t want to eliminate him from the children’s lives. I’m not against him having a relationship with the children, I just want it to be safe.

 

[sammy01]

Ok, so things are still a bit raw.


You're both getting advice from solicitors / friends / punters like me..etc etc. So I'm gonna pull your post apart (constructively). So go make a nice cuppa.

He lied in his affidavit? U'm, no big deal... Look this is gonna shock you, but people lie all the time and in family law people get away with it. Family law court is about best interest of the child, not innocent until proven guilty. IF he is gonna make crap up, let him. A judge will read it. Same judge will read your stuff. Them judges are pretty smart folk. They've got a bit of a built in BS checker. Keep things simple. IF you email him about that stuff, you could help him make the case that you're some sort of control freak. So let me pretend to be his solicitor.... "Your honour, SHE tried to make him change is affidavit via email. Clearly she is unhinged'...

"But he isn’t willing to see the children without being ordered by a judge." Look, without reading all your paperwork, I can only make assumptions. I'm thinking the avo excludes him seeing the kids. So agreeing to see them could see him breached. Given the drunken debacle you mentioned on your first post. He will have been warned. If he didn't go to jail that time he will next time. Hence his stance, only seeing kids if court ordered because right now (I'm guessing - and I'm even more confident if the kids are protected persons on the avo) he could go to jail, even with supervised visits, even if you agree. Now, this is possibly a mistake / mis-understanding on his part. But, he isn't prepared to risk it because he doesn't wanna risk jail. Fair enough when that is what you're risking hey?

He is also probably getting advice that court orders around child access are the only way to protect himself from futher allegations. I'm also thinking he might not be getting good advice. IF the no contact order on the avo has been lifted? sounds like it has. Then you guys can communicate for the purposes of organising him to have the kids and it doesn't need to be supervised. But, like i said, he seems to be getting different advice.

Let's be really objective here. You're gonna have to try really hard. Emotions get in the way and the drunken debacle mentioned above is one such example of how sometimes it rains stupidity. Is he a good dad? Look, when I got kicked out courtesy of the avo I went to some pretty dark places. Got drunk? hell yes. I was an emotional mess. If you were to judge what sort of a parent / humanbeing I am based on how I was coping / living at that time in my life, you'd call me a drunk and an idiot. HOW the fcuk I managed to keep my job? I have no idea.... So, before all this crap went down. When you were still together. Would you leave the kids with him for a day? for a few days while you went for a girls weekend? Go on answer? Obviously, the age of the kids is gonna be a factor here....
So some more questions
How old are the kids?
do you have a solicitor?
Does the ex have a long crimnal history?
Drug addiction (a bit of pot doesn't count)
Alcoholism - Drinking every day, not just a Friday night binge?

Some friendly advice...
What are you doing? This is probably the most stressful thing you'll go through in your life. Do you know you can get some free counselling via your GP? How are you sleeping? I strongly encourage exercising. I was a fcuking mess for a year or more.. My hair went grey in 3 months at the age of 35. THEN -I started exercising. Going to bed physically exhausted means you sleep. Going to bed emotionally exhausted means you toss and turn. Sleep matters. Go to the gym.... OH, and -My ex looked worse - well she did once I got my s**t together and started exercising. And a little bit of vainity. Me looking good (except for the grey hair) while she looked like crap (she carried the stress in her face - wrinkles everywehre) felt good.

You are more important than your kids... Yup, read it again. YOU are more important than your kids. WTF?
Well see right now, if you fall apart, wtf is gonna happen to them. See based on the agro you hit me with in your first response to what i wrote gives me reason to encourage you to look after yourself, calm down. Don't be reactive to situations be calm and responsive... But, you should be commended how (upon reflection) you could see that maybe, my rant had some tough love and accurate information.
Look after yourself.
cheers

 

[justine82]

Ok, so things are still a bit raw.


You're both getting advice from solicitors / friends / punters like me..etc etc. So I'm gonna pull your post apart (constructively). So go make a nice cuppa.

He lied in his affidavit? U'm, no big deal... Look this is gonna shock you, but people lie all the time and in family law people get away with it. Family law court is about best interest of the child, not innocent until proven guilty. IF he is gonna make crap up, let him. A judge will read it. Same judge will read your stuff. Them judges are pretty smart folk. They've got a bit of a built in BS checker. Keep things simple. IF you email him about that stuff, you could help him make the case that you're some sort of control freak. So let me pretend to be his solicitor.... "Your honour, SHE tried to make him change is affidavit via email. Clearly she is unhinged'...

"But he isn’t willing to see the children without being ordered by a judge." Look, without reading all your paperwork, I can only make assumptions. I'm thinking the avo excludes him seeing the kids. So agreeing to see them could see him breached. Given the drunken debacle you mentioned on your first post. He will have been warned. If he didn't go to jail that time he will next time. Hence his stance, only seeing kids if court ordered because right now (I'm guessing - and I'm even more confident if the kids are protected persons on the avo) he could go to jail, even with supervised visits, even if you agree. Now, this is possibly a mistake / mis-understanding on his part. But, he isn't prepared to risk it because he doesn't wanna risk jail. Fair enough when that is what you're risking hey?

He is also probably getting advice that court orders around child access are the only way to protect himself from futher allegations. I'm also thinking he might not be getting good advice. IF the no contact order on the avo has been lifted? sounds like it has. Then you guys can communicate for the purposes of organising him to have the kids and it doesn't need to be supervised. But, like i said, he seems to be getting different advice.

Let's be really objective here. You're gonna have to try really hard. Emotions get in the way and the drunken debacle mentioned above is one such example of how sometimes it rains stupidity. Is he a good dad? Look, when I got kicked out courtesy of the avo I went to some pretty dark places. Got drunk? hell yes. I was an emotional mess. If you were to judge what sort of a parent / humanbeing I am based on how I was coping / living at that time in my life, you'd call me a drunk and an idiot. HOW the fcuk I managed to keep my job? I have no idea.... So, before all this crap went down. When you were still together. Would you leave the kids with him for a day? for a few days while you went for a girls weekend? Go on answer? Obviously, the age of the kids is gonna be a factor here....
So some more questions
How old are the kids?
do you have a solicitor?
Does the ex have a long crimnal history?
Drug addiction (a bit of pot doesn't count)
Alcoholism - Drinking every day, not just a Friday night binge?

Some friendly advice...
What are you doing? This is probably the most stressful thing you'll go through in your life. Do you know you can get some free counselling via your GP? How are you sleeping? I strongly encourage exercising. I was a fcuking mess for a year or more.. My hair went grey in 3 months at the age of 35. THEN -I started exercising. Going to bed physically exhausted means you sleep. Going to bed emotionally exhausted means you toss and turn. Sleep matters. Go to the gym.... OH, and -My ex looked worse - well she did once I got my s**t together and started exercising. And a little bit of vainity. Me looking good (except for the grey hair) while she looked like crap (she carried the stress in her face - wrinkles everywehre) felt good.

You are more important than your kids... Yup, read it again. YOU are more important than your kids. WTF?
Well see right now, if you fall apart, wtf is gonna happen to them. See based on the agro you hit me with in your first response to what i wrote gives me reason to encourage you to look after yourself, calm down. Don't be reactive to situations be calm and responsive... But, you should be commended how (upon reflection) you could see that maybe, my rant had some tough love and accurate information.
Look after yourself.
cheers

Hi Sammy.. thank you for that response. Its helpful.

Today I confirmed with my local police station that it is okay for us to speak over the family law proceedings and that we have not breached in any way over the affidavit contact, however, I understand what you're saying with the whole she tried to make him change this and that. I will answer your questions and give you some more insight.

The children (almost aged 5 & 3) were not listed in the ADVO. The conditions have never stopped him from organising supervised visits and they still do not stop him from doing that outside of the courts. I understand he doesn't want to get into trouble, but all he has to do is the right thing for that to not happen? Maybe thats hard for him. I don't want any ADVO breaches either, a few weeks ago I went to the effort of creating a google shared doc with the father outlining a parenting plan for us so we had in writing that the supervised visits would be okay. I asked if he could put his wants and needs with the children into the shared doc for us to attempt negotiation and then we could go to lawyers to get sorted. He again insisted we be in family courts. I asked if we could do this through a mediator or lawyer, he again insisted on being in front of a judge. I still don't get it. I am still going to try for mediation. He states he wants what is best for the children, but isn't that coming to an agreement outside of the courts so that he can re-start his relationship with them sooner? Its been 10 months since he's last seen them.

To answer some of your questions.. I have a solicitor but as I only received the affidavit, application and notice of risk last week.. I have not yet been able to have a good chat with my solicitor as she is still in the process of going through the documentation. Ex has a criminal history, up to 25 criminal charges and he is only 26 years of age, I am 28 years of age. Ex has been known to abuse alcohol daily in the past, unsure what his latest status is on that but he's attended AA numerous times before. He admits in his affidavit that most of his life he has abused MDMA and cocaine. Also, he has stated he wants the children to live with me.. but he puts in his notice of risk that im a risk as i smoke pot, take valium, and drink alcohol daily (all false allegations). I have been sober all year. I was prescribed valium last year for the stress of our break up, but I did not stay on the medication for long. Didn't like the side effects. If I am such a risk, why does he want the children living with me. He has a history of self-harming and has sent suicidal threats to me whilst the children were in his care. This happened more than once. And he has been hospitalised for self-harming in a really disgusting way three times over the past 4 years, message me if you wanna know how he did that. He threatened me and my new partner in our home with a weapon, the children were in the home.. however.. asleep (thank god). So his contact should really be supervised and I don't feel comfortable with him having any over nights. He has shown to be a dangerous and violent man. Maybe I should have put this info in my forum question on the affidavit lying, but i really did just wanna know others experience on lying in affidavits. I am very interested in your thoughts now though, after knowing some of the background.

Thank you for your friendly advice. I exercise daily, but not sure if I am keen on counselling. I have been through a lot at the hands of my ex, but just not open for counselling. I feel strong, just emotional over this at times. What mother wouldn't be. Perhaps I should engage with a counsellor, I just really dread the idea. I understand what you are saying when you say I am more important than the kids.. it is a must I take care of myself in order to take care of them.
Thanks.

 

[sammy01]

Ok, so just to clarify, there are family law court proceedings coming?
Are you the applicant or the respondent?

You have good grounds for wanting supervised visits. Meanwhile you popping a valium here or there is normal. It is a legal prescription drug and alcohol is legal. Of course you were prescribed valium. It is a prescription drug to help with acute stress. Well that is what you had, hence that is what is prescribed.

Look lying in the affidavit is common territory - poetic licence - a bit of exaggeration. BUT he is not helping his cause by slagging you out. He is hurting his cause.

IT is both good mental health advice and good legal strategy to minimise contact. BTW I"m a bloke and I spend a bit of my spare time advocating for blokes to get a better go in family court. But I don't advocate for drug addicts or violent people. It might just be that this is one of those sad cases where the kids would be better off with dad in a few years IF he cleans himself up... And you would be a better mum if you didn't have to waste emotional energy on this stuff....
So which is it? are you the applicant or the respondent? and are there family law proceeding coming? just not sure if you're talking about the avo (crimnal law) or the affidavit is about the family law stuff?

 

[justine82]

Ok, so just to clarify, there are family law court proceedings coming?
Are you the applicant or the respondent?

You have good grounds for wanting supervised visits. Meanwhile you popping a valium here or there is normal. It is a legal prescription drug and alcohol is legal. Of course you were prescribed valium. It is a prescription drug to help with acute stress. Well that is what you had, hence that is what is prescribed.

Look lying in the affidavit is common territory - poetic licence - a bit of exaggeration. BUT he is not helping his cause by slagging you out. He is hurting his cause.

IT is both good mental health advice and good legal strategy to minimise contact. BTW I"m a bloke and I spend a bit of my spare time advocating for blokes to get a better go in family court. But I don't advocate for drug addicts or violent people. It might just be that this is one of those sad cases where the kids would be better off with dad in a few years IF he cleans himself up... And you would be a better mum if you didn't have to waste emotional energy on this stuff....
So which is it? are you the applicant or the respondent? and are there family law proceeding coming? just not sure if you're talking about the avo (crimnal law) or the affidavit is about the family law stuff?

Yes, there are family court proceedings coming up in a couple of months. Dad is the applicant and I am the respondent. It just seems all over the place to me. I need to protect my children and I sometimes feel uneasy about dad even having supervised visits. He’s shown a lot of inconsistencies in the past as well with the children, not sticking to plans he makes with them… not calling when he says he would etc etc. he has requested I get drug and alcohol tested, which I’m hoping he will also have to do? I have no stress or worry in myself doing any testing if I’m ordered to, can he just request I do such testing without any evidence suggesting I’m a drug/alcohol user?

In his affidavit he also makes it out to be as if I am the alienating mother who has separated him from his children for no apparent reason. Which is not the case at all. I really don’t know what he was thinking when he wrote the affidavit, surely he’d know I would receive and read it? And then have to defend myself ..

I honestly feel like he has initiated family court just to have some sort of control.. because he can see the children without going down this path. So yeah.. proceedings coming up and I am the respondent.

Thats great you advocate for men who genuinely need the help, I do feel for everyone involved with shitty ex’s in these situations regardless of gender.

 

[sammy01]

ok he requests drug tests. You request the same of him...
He claims you're alienating... In your affidavit you show that you've made attempts for him to see the kids.
Look I advocate for blokes because kids need a dad and the system is sexist in my opinion. But not all dad's are good for kids.

Minimise contact. Be honest.So IF the ex says you're a Satan worshiper, all you have to say is that you disagree. Simple. One more thing learn a lesson here. Bad boys are fun to party with, not so much fun to start a family with.... (But you've probably worked this one out already)
cheers
Sammy