TAS 9-Year-Old Left Unsupervised for Hours - Breach of Family Court Orders?

[John Myer]

Hi All,

I have 50/50 care and custody of children with the ex as part of our family court orders.

After incidents with random teenage boys (friends of step siblings) tucking my daughter into bed, our court orders do include a clause stating she can't be left without adult supervision for longer than 2 hours.

However, an incident arose this weekend when my 9-year-old daughter and her 9-year-old male sibling walked 500 metres from there home to visit a skate park unsupervised for 2.5 hours. Whilst I lodge a breach, I have called docs who said they will speak with her about it but that's it.

Police, of course, aren't interested and I am pushing the matter as I believe it to be neglect and literally criminal.

I'm after opinions on the matter and interested in finding any legal precedent.

 

[Rod]

When I was 9, I used to be unsupervised for a lot of day at weekends. Out in morning, maybe back for lunch, out again, back for tea. And no, things are not really any different now, it is just with social media it seems that way.

Sounds like a technical breach rather than a serious breach as long as the mother was still around and contactable. Different story if a druggie mother was unconscious for 4 hrs.

Are you doing this because it is best for your daughter, or because you want more time?

Helicopter parents are bad for kids.

 

[John Myer]

Yes, mate back in the day, we all just had to be home before dark but things change for good reason. Not sure if you've been to a skate park lately but they aren't safe or healthy place for kids.

This one in particular has regular muggings and on 28 Feb a gang brawl and stabbing. Won't be applying for any change to care arrangements. I'd love nothing more than to have her with me full time but she loves her mum and it's important she has shared care.

I just need her mother to act responsibly and ensure she is safe and cared for.

 

[thatbloke]

Jeebus H Crackers, are you serious? They went for a walk and stayed out for a bit and you are calling DOCS? Your Headlines states for hours but really it was only 2.5 hours? Do you honestly thing DOCS will do anything? Why are you so paranoid about kids doing normal kids stuff?

Neglect? You are having a laugh.

Criminal? Get a grip mate, were you locked in a box when you were a kid or something?

Precedent? I doubt it.

Opinion: Stop being so anal and paranoid.

Mum has done nothing wrong at all. I'll bet good money this ridiculous clause is removed if you file a contravention and you will be hauled over the coals for wasting the court's time.

Were they consent orders?

 

[John Myer]

Docs are following up as allowing children as young as 9 to cross roads is illegal. It doesn't matter what used to happen in "the good old days"!

Qld in particular have specific laws preventing this for kids under 12. In Tas and most states, it's the provision of supervision and care for a child for an unreasonable time.

So what is an unreasonable time?

I am looking for actual educated legal help, not keyboard warrior opinions "kids these days" and misguided reminiscing on why current generations shouldn't be put in cotton wool.

 

[thatbloke]

(Opinion) You are on a hiding to nothing in any contravention you file but feel free to go and pay for a lawyer to tell you the same.

That is usually how people get actual legal advice as it is it illegal for non-qualified people to give legal advice.

On an open forum, you get other people's opinions for free. What magically changes at the 2 hours and one minute mark? Nothing... except in your own mind.

 

[Rod]

I just need her mother to act responsibly and ensure she is safe and cared for.

And the mother might think you are a control freak.

I am a little educated in family law.

I also however do not condone using a big stick over what is likely to be a difference of opinion and won't be offering suggestions. DOCS actually have real problems to fix and it seems like a waste of time and their limited resources over what appears to be a parenting spat.

Using nanny laws inappropriately is not something I support, nor will I assist with.

 

[AllForHer]

Legal advice is not offered via this forum.

For a contravention application to succeed, you need to prove that Mum has, without reasonable excuse, intentionally failed, or made no reasonable attempt to comply with, the orders.

First, how can you prove the children were unsupervised for 2.5 hours? Nine-year-olds don’t make for reliable witnesses in a Court of law, and unless there was an observer who is also willing to provide an affidavit and face cross-examination in Court, any evidence you have from other observers is hear-say, which is not admissible in Court. On top of that, what is considered ‘supervised’? Presence of another person? Presence of a sibling? Presence of an adult? Presence of an adult known to the children? Presence of an adult known to the children and agreed by the parents?

Second, even if you do prove it, what outcome are you expecting? It would be considered a minor contravention, so at best, the Court will order Mum enter into a bond; at worst, the Court will remove the order all together. Since the Court is not in the business of micro-managing parents and must try and make orders that minimise conflict, I would say it’s more likely the Court will remove the order, or at least amend it to clarify what’s considered supervised or unsupervised.

The Criminal Code in Queensland does limit children being left unsupervised for an unreasonable amount of time, but the police obviously don’t have any interest in prosecuting because they, too, will have a lot of trouble proving beyond reasonable doubt that the children were left unsupervised for an unreasonable amount of time when the only evidence available is your word.

Parenting orders remain in force until a child turns 18. May I ask, what happens when the child turns 15 or 16 or 17? Will she not be allowed to see a movie with her friends unless escorted by one of her parents? Will she not be able to attend a concert without invoking her father’s wrath against her mother and risk having him call police/DOCS/Family Court? Have you considered what impact that might have on her friendships? Her personal development toward independence? Her self-esteem? Her identity?

Have you considered what impact your actions will have on your daughter’s relationship with you?

 

[thatbloke]

I'm wondering if the children know about these restrictions how it has been explained to them and how restricted it makes them feel in their life being able to do what other kids do every day of the week.

It's the kind of thing that can cause a child psychological harm that can carry over into adulthood.

My gut feeling is that the restrictions were put into place so that the kids are left home alone rather than restricting them from playing with kids outside and they are being used in the wrong way by the person that started this thread.

 

[Callmekayte]

Can't believe you just wasted DOCS limited resources for something so petty, this is not a DOCS/police issue it's a parenting issue! If you go to court I'd imagine it will probably backfire given you've wasted DOCS time and seemingly can't communicate with your ex.

You have every right to decide whether or not your daughter is old enough to go out with friends alone, however your ex also has the right to make that decision, why is your opinion more valuable then hers?